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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 11:08
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I don't even know why I feel the need to bring this up, but I'm going to do so.

Despite what the Pope(s) like to claim, the Catholic Church does not accept evolution unless we participate in some equivocation which is at the core the same thing that young earth creationists do to say that they believe in evolution.

The Church is quite specific in its belief that humans arose out of evolution as an end point. They view an evolutionary tree from the first organism which a bunch of arrows which down generation to generation and eventually end up on humans where the journey is complete. This is at odds with evolution as we understand how it works. It is a common teleological fallacy that permeates many Catholics and often leads to fundamental misunderstandings in evolutionary science. Indeed, Creationists use this faulty belief to formulate strawman arugments against evolution.

FALSE

The Church neither the Pope say anything about scientific issues of the evolution theory, we only accept it as more than a theory

Quote Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis.*  In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies—which was neither planned nor sought—constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM

We don't present alternative options to evolution or say that the actual human is the culmination of evolution, I don't know where you got that.

We only accept it.

Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 05 2014 at 11:09
            
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 11:39
LOL



*sigh*
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 12:22
"The Vatican "systematically" adopted policies that allowed priests to rape and molest tens of thousands of children over decades, a U.N. human rights committee said Wednesday"
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 12:31
"... but tens of thousands over decades is no more than any other religious organisation or public body over that same time period." ...


... is not a defence. 
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Points: 5319 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 12:57
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-dantonio/fraud-and-the-next-catholic-crisis_b_1562085.html


Might have to start paying for the misery they have caused.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 13:05
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I don't even know why I feel the need to bring this up, but I'm going to do so.

Despite what the Pope(s) like to claim, the Catholic Church does not accept evolution unless we participate in some equivocation which is at the core the same thing that young earth creationists do to say that they believe in evolution.

The Church is quite specific in its belief that humans arose out of evolution as an end point. They view an evolutionary tree from the first organism which a bunch of arrows which down generation to generation and eventually end up on humans where the journey is complete. This is at odds with evolution as we understand how it works. It is a common teleological fallacy that permeates many Catholics and often leads to fundamental misunderstandings in evolutionary science. Indeed, Creationists use this faulty belief to formulate strawman arugments against evolution.

FALSE

The Church neither the Pope say anything about scientific issues of the evolution theory, we only accept it as more than a theory

Quote Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis.*  In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies—which was neither planned nor sought—constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM

We don't present alternative options to evolution or say that the actual human is the culmination of evolution, I don't know where you got that.

We only accept it.

Iván


So God didn't mean to create humans?
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 13:26
No, he wanted to create a vaccine for an illness that was epidemic among deities, so he came up with this bacteria. Sadly, it ended up in the hands on an evil dictator called Satan who develop a more potent chemical weapon out of this bacteria, and that's how human beings ended up basically winning him the fight. 
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 14:19
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:


So God didn't mean to create humans?

We believe that the human body evolved from existing matter.

The soul is another problem, for us comes directly from God....But of course we will never agree in the existence of the soul.


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 05 2014 at 15:01
            
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lazland View Drop Down
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Points: 13627 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 14:39
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:


So God didn't mean to create humans?

We believe that the human body evolved from existing matery.


I might ask the missus for a bit of "matery" myself tonightLOL
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 14:40
That didn't answer my question. So the Catholic God was indifferent to whether humans evolved or did not evolve?
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 13627 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 14:47
Anyhow, we were talking around the dinner table tonight, and the discussion turned towards matters spiritual, as they sometimes do.

I had a very serious point to make, and I instantly thought of you Godless demons on this thread.

I am going in for an operation next week, and the hospital instructions say I cannot have a cigarette for at least two days beforehand (Angry). Needless to say, I will not be able to have a ciggy on the ward....

Oh my. As a dedicated smoker, this fills me with a bit of dismay, to the extent that wifey is buying me one of those electronic vaping thingys.

So, I said. When I die and ascend to heaven, I am absolutely sure that, within an hour (about the frequency I partake of nicotine), the Good Lord will offer me a pack of twenty, and tell me, joyously, to puff away. Indeed, said Good Lord will also inform me that I will be able to puff away inside, out of the rain, because, of course, when one has eternal life, one cannot possibly die from smoking.

Think of it. Eternal life, drinking and smoking to your heart's content forever, safe in the knowledge that as you are already dead, you cannot possibly expire from ill healthSmile

Now, then. You Godless lot cannot promise me that can you? I take a huge amount of comfort from this, and did not even need to cut and paste anything to make my point. 

Discuss..........
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 15:01
I can promise it to you.

If you become agnostic I promise that you will go to a magical heaven where you will be perfectly happy and able to puff on cigarettes with no repercussions.

Promises are easy. Fulfillment is hard. I can't fulfill the promise. Neither can Christianity.


Edited by Equality 7-2521 - February 05 2014 at 15:05
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 15:01
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

That didn't answer my question. So the Catholic God was indifferent to whether humans evolved or did not evolve?

Allowed them to evolve and knew they would.

And I stop here


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 05 2014 at 15:02
            
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 15:02
Okay I'll pick up the discussion again if you choose to answer.


Edited by Equality 7-2521 - February 05 2014 at 15:02
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 15:03
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Okay I'll pick up the discussion again if you choose to answer.

Already answered
            
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 15:04
I find that hard to believe since I was asking for a binary response.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 6797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 15:45
So I will be able to smoke in heaven but it will be raining, apparently.
Help me I'm falling!
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Points: 20623 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 15:48
Somehow I thought this would fit in nicely just about now............Big smile
 My sincerest apologies if I have disrupted the flow of the discussion.
 
 
 
 
Talk
Talk
It's only talk
Debates
Discussions
These are words with a D this time
Dialogue
Dualogue
Diatribe
Dissention
Declamation
Double talk
Double talk

.


Edited by dr wu23 - February 05 2014 at 15:49
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Points: 8614 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 16:55
"Please be kind enough,
To stop what you're doing,
And sing a few lines,
It's not all that rough,
To laugh a bit at the rhyme

Watch to see what i've become,
a box turned round,
A worldy speck in this old town,
An upside down frown

Guess what I am, when i want,
can you tell me,
Guess what I am, what I see,
can you show me,
Not as if I plead, but won't you,
Guess what I am, when I'm me,
And what I bring to you."

"Guess What I Am"-Bloodrock

Part of this song has been going thru my head ever since I started reading this thread, thought I would share it



Edited by presdoug - February 05 2014 at 17:19
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 05 2014 at 17:19
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:



Discuss..........
So, is nicotine the only drug that is permitted in heaven? Obviously one would assume there is a bountiful supply of angel dust and a tab or two of religious ecstasy, even some top quality speed for the crystal methodists. Are there opiates on tap for the primate and some poppers for the priest? I suspect the only difference between heaven and hell is that in hell you are immune to their effects...

I guess in heaven the thrill junkies could go base jumping without a parachute and cyclists could jump read lights. Little dead kids can play with matches and once you've shuffled off this moral coil you really could mend a toaster with a butter knife. Come to think of it, I doubt that god would frown at people who ran with scissors or those that swallowed gum or all those other things my mum told me were bad, like cutting your toenails on a Sunday (though I never was quite sure why). 

In fact, since you're already dead and so is everyone else around you, you could take pot-shots at all the people who ticked you off in life with a 12-bore to your hearts content - there's no harm in that after all.


Edited by Dean - February 05 2014 at 17:24
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