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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 15:17
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

No need to silence Ivan or those with opposing views. At least for me it is somewhat of an interesting read.
Pah. He's not giving his vews, he's cut and pasting from the internet. You're just being lazy.
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Points: 6797 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 15:32
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 16:04
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

No need to silence Ivan or those with opposing views. At least for me it is somewhat of an interesting read.
Pah. He's not giving his vews, he's cut and pasting from the internet. You're just being lazy.
What? Why?
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 16:15
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

No need to silence Ivan or those with opposing views. At least for me it is somewhat of an interesting read.
Pah. He's not giving his vews, he's cut and pasting from the internet. You're just being lazy.
What? Why?
You too can learn to search the internet, just ask Ivan for details, with a simple down payment and 24 monthly instalments you too can be cutting and pasting pages of regurgitated hypertext on any subject that fits your doctrine, his three-step plan will have you spamming like a pro within three weeks, this once in a lunchtime offer comes with absolutely guaranteed no money back assurance.


Or failing that you could just enter "Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust" into Google and see what happens.


But if you are lazy, you can just provoke Ivan and he'll do it for you.
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Points: 13064 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 16:23
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Lets start from the beginning, The Inquisition killed 1,500 persons in 5 centuries, not that this was good, but it’s terribly maligned.

What I find the most amusing about your diatribes is that you choose the most infinitesmal number available to bolster your opinion, like quoting only 1500 persons were murdered in the Inquisition (when you are only referring to the Spanish Inquisition, and that every valid historian in Spain estimates a number between 3000 and 5000), but you neglect to reference Inquisitions as a whole (like in France, Bohemia, Italy, etc.), and then you have the gall to say the Inquisition was "vastly maligned" (hey, they tortured thousands, but only a few thousand actually died -- they had it coming!); conversely, you make wildly conflated numbers to suit the opposite end of your rhetoric: "the Pope held 700,000, no 760,000, no 800,000 Jews inside a Vatican washroom, and kept a like number of Croatian Baptists in the trunk of the pope-mobile."

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

That can’t be defended either but it’s funny that the Catholic Church is by far the institution (religious opr civil) with less cases of pedophilia.

You are in denial. Name an institution, religious or otherwise, that had the number of pedophilia cases as the Catholic Church and that said institution kept the crimes hidden for 50, 60 or 70 years. Name an institution that, when it discovered the pedophilic rapists, not only kept the said pedophiles on its payroll but also transfered the rapists to a new spot to rape (sometimes moving the rapist several times). Name an institution whose leaders remained in place after several thousand incidents were reported. Name an institution wherein the reports of molestation occurred worldwide?
 

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

It’s also important to notice that 96.4% of the accused priests, have been declared innocent by civil courts, but newspapers only talk about accused priests, not about innocent ones.

Oh, Ivan, I pity you. And how many pedophilic rapes by Catholic priests have gone unreported over the last 50 years worldwide? How many occurred previously and cannot be brought up for trial?
 

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Why don’t you speak about the millions that the Catholic Church spends in Africa or health and education in all the world?

How many millions of Third World Catholics have died of AIDS because the pope believes some fantasy diety forbids condoms? I would start singing Monty Python's "Every Sperm Is Sacred", but the humor would be lost on you.

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

It’s easy to point what happened centuries ago, but close the eyes to all the good that is done.

Let's see, I can't bring up Catholic-sponsored Jewish Pogroms from the past, Vatican-sponsored Crusades that killed millions, nor can I bring up the very recent worldwide Vatican pedophilia scandal. Damn, I haven't even brought up the Schism, the buying and selling of benefices and indulgences that led Martin Luther to break from the Church, the imprisonment of Galileo or the executions of Jan Huss and Giordano Bruno (not to mention the pope ordering the exhumation of John Wycliffe's bones so that he could be tried and burned after death). We can only look to future outrages rather than showing the two thousand years of violence, scandal and corruption that brought us here.
 
With that, I am out.
 


Edited by The Dark Elf - February 02 2014 at 16:37
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 16:30
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

No need to silence Ivan or those with opposing views. At least for me it is somewhat of an interesting read.
Pah. He's not giving his vews, he's cut and pasting from the internet. You're just being lazy.
What? Why?
You too can learn to search the internet, just ask Ivan for details, with a simple down payment and 24 monthly instalments you too can be cutting and pasting pages of regurgitated hypertext on any subject that fits your doctrine, his three-step plan will have you spamming like a pro within three weeks, this once in a lunchtime offer comes with absolutely guaranteed no money back assurance.


Or failing that you could just enter "Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust" into Google and see what happens.


But if you are lazy, you can just provoke Ivan and he'll do it for you.
He's a lawyer. He's just doing his job. Gathering evidence that supposedly proves his point. 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 16:50
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

No need to silence Ivan or those with opposing views. At least for me it is somewhat of an interesting read.
Pah. He's not giving his vews, he's cut and pasting from the internet. You're just being lazy.
What? Why?
You too can learn to search the internet, just ask Ivan for details, with a simple down payment and 24 monthly instalments you too can be cutting and pasting pages of regurgitated hypertext on any subject that fits your doctrine, his three-step plan will have you spamming like a pro within three weeks, this once in a lunchtime offer comes with absolutely guaranteed no money back assurance.


Or failing that you could just enter "Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust" into Google and see what happens.


But if you are lazy, you can just provoke Ivan and he'll do it for you.
He's a lawyer. He's just doing his job. Gathering evidence that supposedly proves his point. 


This is not a court of law, he has no "job" to act as official apologist for the catholic church here. In this instance there was no need to produce reams of "evidence", which he has repeated ad nauseam (did you know Pius xii personally saved more jews than Schindler?), because no one actually attacked the bloody catholic church until after he took it upon himself to defend it. 
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 16:53
I'm not saying we needed a lawyer or that we are in court. I'm just describing why this happens.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 16:56
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

I'm not saying we needed a lawyer or that we are in court. I'm just describing why this happens.
Any fool knows why it happens.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 17:04
Man are you grumpy today.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 17:11
I'm no longer an Admin, I don't have to be nice all the time any more.
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 17:15
I've noticed that.

Though nicety (if that's a word) is usually better.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 17:23
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

I've noticed that.

Though nicety (if that's a word) is usually better.
(it's a word). I still employ niceties in any exchange, even when I'm not being nice.
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 19:31
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:


You are in denial. Name an institution, religious or otherwise, that had the number of pedophilia cases as the Catholic Church and that said institution kept the crimes hidden for 50, 60 or 70 years. Name an institution that, when it discovered the pedophilic rapists, not only kept the said pedophiles on its payroll but also transfered the rapists to a new spot to rape (sometimes moving the rapist several times). Name an institution whose leaders remained in place after several thousand incidents were reported. Name an institution wherein the reports of molestation occurred worldwide?
 

I'm not in denial and I can prove it

Quote This is just plain false. There´s absolutely no evidence that priests aremore likely to abuse children than are other groups of men. The use and
abuse of children as objects for the sexual gratification of adults is
epidemic in all classes, professions, religions, and ethnic communities
across the globe, as figures on child pornography, incest, and child
prostitution make abundantly clear. Pedophilia (the sexual abuse of a
prepubescent child) among priests is extremely rare, affecting only 0.3% of
the entire population of clergy. This figure, cited in the book Pedophiles
and Priests by non-Catholic scholar, Philip Jenkins, is from the most
comprehensive study to date, which found that only one out of 2,252 priests
considered over a thirty-year period was afflicted with pedophilia. In the
recent Boston scandal, only four of the more than eighty priests labeled by
the media as "pedophiles" are actually guilty of molesting young children.

Phillip Jekins (Episcopalian researcher) proves that the percentage of pedophilia in priests is 0.3, smaller than uin any activity

For example Medical Doctors

Quote • Dr. Gene Abel estimates that between 1% and 5% of our population molest children. 
- CNN Specials Transcript #454-Thieves of Childhood.

7% of public school teachers

Quote Shakeshaft’s mammoth research project for the federal government indicates 7% of public-school students will be sexually molested by staff or teachers, or about 4.2 million victims, while the abuse of various sorts by fellow students will be greater.

Protestant Ministers

Quote “Now let me give you some figures that you as Catholics should know and remember. For example, research by Richard Blackman at Fuller Theological Seminary shows that 12% of the 300 Protestant clergy surveyed admitted to sexual intercourse with a parishioner; 38% acknowledged other inappropriate sexual contact. In a 1990 study by the United Methodist Church, 41.8% of clergywomen reported unwanted sexual behavior by a colleague; 17% of laywomen said that their own pastors had sexually harassed them. Phillip Jenkins concludes in his book “Pedophiles and Priests” that while 1.7% of the Catholic clergy has been found guilty of pedophilia, 10% of Protestant ministers have been found guilty of pedophilia.“

Sam Miller (Jewish Researcher) talking about the ACCUSED PRIESTS

Nut nobody says this, it's the damn Catholic Church.

But the number are differen t, 0.3% of the total number of priests have been accused and only 1.7% of the accused were found guilty.

But face the truth, an accused priest of the supposedly rich Catholic Church sells, that's why the 98.3% of innocent ptriests have never been cleaned.

And yes, there has been covering which is wrong, but there's covering in everuy activity, specially when an accused priest uis declared guilty by the media before convicted.

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Oh, Ivan, I pity you. And how many pedophilic rapes by Catholic priests have gone unreported over the last 50 years worldwide? How many occurred previously and cannot be brought up for trial?

How many doctors, teachers, and protestant pastors have been covered?

False accusations lead to this.

I don't justify any act of pedophilia, but the emphasis in the Catholic Church is abusive
 
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

How many millions of Third World Catholics have died of AIDS because the pope believes some fantasy diety forbids condoms? I would start singing Monty Python's "Every Sperm Is Sacred", but the humor would be lost on you.

Oh please, that dumb statement has no support, we all use condoms, I have usrd them, every Catholic I jknow has used them.

Plus the incidence of AIDS is higher in no Catholic countries like USA or African countries.

By the contrary, the Catholic Church is by far the first anti retroviral provider in the world.

Quote The Catholic Church is the biggest private provider of AIDS care in the world, providing anti-retroviral treatment, home-care visits and counseling to one in four of the world's 33.3 million AIDS patients, according to the Catholic charity Caritas International. In 2008, members of the Catholic HIV and AIDS network spent 180 million euros (about $235 million) on assistance...

25% of the AIDS victims are alive thanks to the Catholic Church, you speak with no fundaments or evidence,


Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Let's see, I can't bring up Catholic-sponsored Jewish Pogroms from the past, Vatican-sponsored Crusades that killed millions, nor can I bring up the very recent worldwide Vatican pedophilia scandal. Damn, I haven't even brought up the Schism, the buying and selling of benefices and indulgences that led Martin Luther to break from the Church, the imprisonment of Galileo or the executions of Jan Huss and Giordano Bruno (not to mention the pope ordering the exhumation of John Wycliffe's bones so that he could be tried and burned after death). We can only look to future outrages rather than showing the two thousand years of violence, scandal and corruption that brought us here.
 
With that, I am out.
 

Lets talk about Schism

- Elizabeth I killed in her reign 36,000 Catholics (More or less 10 times morre tha n the Catholic Inquisition uin 5 centuries)
- In the Protestant sack of Rome
Quote

[quote]
An estimated 45,000 Roman men, women and children either fled the city as refugees or were killed by Bourbon’s army, while the churches, shrines and other historic monuments were looted or destroyed. Only the Sistine Chapel, where Charles de Bourbon’s body had been taken to rest in state, was spared attack. Witnesses to the sack of Rome were unanimous in stating that both the Catholic soldiers of the Emperor and the Protestant Landsknechts participated equally in the unbridled desecration of the city.

But you don't speak about this

Read this}

http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/03/protestant-inquisition-reformation.html


But we don't live in the past
            
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Points: 65268 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 19:58
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

This isn't so much a thread as it is a sweater.

My first nominee for Quote-of-the-Year 2014
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Points: 13064 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 20:49
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:


You are in denial. Name an institution, religious or otherwise, that had the number of pedophilia cases as the Catholic Church and that said institution kept the crimes hidden for 50, 60 or 70 years. Name an institution that, when it discovered the pedophilic rapists, not only kept the said pedophiles on its payroll but also transfered the rapists to a new spot to rape (sometimes moving the rapist several times). Name an institution whose leaders remained in place after several thousand incidents were reported. Name an institution wherein the reports of molestation occurred worldwide?
 

I'm not in denial and I can prove it...SNIP...
 
No you can't. The statistics you provided are utterly useless to your case. You don't have a clue. In no instances that you provide is there a cover-up of the magnitude that the Vatican and its bishops are guilty of. In none of the data you provided does a) the school protect the rapist or keep them on the payroll, nor did the state or country protect the pedophile, or b) the Protestant Church leaders retain the ministers in question, nor did they maintain a cover-up on a nationwide or international scale,  or c) no organization kept the information secret for over a half-century, or offer attorneys to defend the criminal in court. Yet the Catholic Church did.
 
Popes, along with their Cardinals and bishops in numerous countries, operated a criminal cover-up to save face for the Church. Not protect their sheep as is their supposed "God-given" duty as Church shepherds, but f*ck the flock. And this they did, over and over and over for decades and even centruries, while thousands of souls in their care were destroyed. 
 
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

How many millions of Third World Catholics have died of AIDS because the pope believes some fantasy diety forbids condoms? I would start singing Monty Python's "Every Sperm Is Sacred", but the humor would be lost on you.

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Oh please, that dumb statement has no support, we all use condoms, I have usrd them, every Catholic I jknow has used them.
 
Wait...so you pick and choose which Church doctrines suit you? So, which other papal pronouncements do you ignore because they are inconvenient?
 
There is nothing worse than a sanctimonious hypocrite.
 


Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Plus the incidence of AIDS is higher in no Catholic countries like USA or African countries.

By the contrary, the Catholic Church is by far the first anti retroviral provider in the world.

[quote]The Catholic Church is the biggest private provider of AIDS care in the world, providing anti-retroviral treatment, home-care visits and counseling to one in four of the world's 33.3 million AIDS patients, according to the Catholic charity Caritas International. In 2008, members of the Catholic HIV and AIDS network spent 180 million euros (about $235 million) on assistance...
 
Perhaps handing out free condoms, educating 3rd World people in their proper use, and breaking the stigma of using condoms would be a better allocation of resources. It might also reduce the amount of starving infants in the world.


Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Lets talk about Schism

- Elizabeth I killed in her reign 36,000 Catholics (More or less 10 times morre tha n the Catholic Inquisition uin 5 centuries)
- In the Protestant sack of Rome
 
Ivan, I thought you were educated in history at whatever University you went to? Elizabeth I? The Protestant sack of Rome? What exactly do these have to do with the Schism? I was referring to the Papal Schism (try a little harder with your Wiki quotes, you can find it under "The Great Schism", "The Western Schism" or "The Papal Schism"), not the Reformation, which was never referred to as a "schism", probably because the vast majority of historians worldwide only refer to Schism as The Papal Schism (1378 to 1418) or the "East-West Schism" (1054, regarding the complete break of Chalcedonian Christianity and the Roman Church).
 
This is becoming embarrassing.


Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

But you don't speak about this
 
Ivan, you got a wild hair up your posterior and came on the Atheist thread espousing Catholic nonsense. Anyone who has ever read my comments knows I will attack Protestant or Muslim hypocrisy and violence with equal fervor.
 
I would love to talk about Protestant atrocities of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation, but will do so only in the Christian thread, where such religious lunacy belongs. Let it go in this sub-forum, because you are only damaging your own cause here.

As a post-script to your mention of Protestant atrocities, I note that Sir Thomas More was canonized a saint by the Catholic Church for his martyrdom at the order of Henry VIII. Interesting man, Sir Thomas. He had six Lutherans burned at the stake while Henry VIII was still a Most Catholic King and Defender of the Faith. Its nice to know you can still get to heaven after burrning folks for their beliefs.


Edited by The Dark Elf - February 02 2014 at 20:58
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Points: 19535 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 21:27
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

No you can't. The statistics you provided are utterly useless to your case. You don't have a clue. In no instances that you provide is there a cover-up of the magnitude that the Vatican and its bishops are guilty of. In none of the data you provided does a) the school protect the rapist or keep them on the payroll, nor did the state or country protect the pedophile, or b) the Protestant Church leaders retain the ministers in question, nor did they maintain a cover-up on a nationwide or international scale,  or c) no organization kept the information secret for over a half-century, or offer attorneys to defend the criminal in court. Yet the Catholic Church did.
 
Popes, along with their Cardinals and bishops in numerous countries, operated a criminal cover-up to save face for the Church. Not protect their sheep as is their supposed "God-given" duty as Church shepherds, but f*ck the flock. And this they did, over and over and over for decades and even centruries, while thousands of souls in their care were destroyed. 

I'm not guessing, I have statistics, you are guessing on the other hand

You say my statistics are useless, but you present nothing except your words to contradict them,.

Please check the data in Reformation.Com, everybody makes cover ups, 


Schools, universities, etc cover most of tof the rapes, because it costs money.

You are guessing of course without any base, but always against the Church, no data, no srtatistics only a phrase:

The statistics you provided are utterly useless to your case. You don't have a clue. In no instances that you provide is there a cover-up of the magnitude that the Vatican and its bishops are guilty of. 

You present no statistic, no information and simply attack.

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Wait...so you pick and choose which Church doctrines suit you? So, which other papal pronouncements do you ignore because they are inconvenient?
 
There is nothing worse than a sanctimonious hypocrite.

That's my problem, not your's.

I'm not an hypocrite, there are many precepts I don't agree with, and in this case it's not a Dogma, as a proof of that, Benedictus XVI said that the use of Condoms is justified to control ETS

Quote ROME — Pope Benedict XVI has said that condom use can be justified in some cases to help stop the spread of AIDS, the Vatican’s first exception to a long-held policy banning contraceptives. The pope made the statement in interviews on a host of contentious issues with a German journalist, part of an unusual effort to address some of the harshest criticisms of his turbulent papacy.

If it was a dogma, he couldn't change except by issuing another dogma, it's just a teaching.

But that's between God and me, not you.

I support abortion after a rape and the Church doesn't, there's a difference between being a rational believer and a literal follower

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Ivan, you got a wild hair up your posterior and came on the Atheist thread espousing Catholic nonsense. Anyone who has ever read my comments knows I will attack Protestant or Muslim hypocrisy and violence with equal fervor.
 
I would love to talk about Protestant atrocities of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation, but will do so only in the Christian thread, where such religious lunacy belongs. Let it go in this sub-forum, because you are only damaging your own cause here.

As a post-script to your mention of Protestant atrocities, I note that Sir Thomas More was canonized a saint by the Catholic Church for his martyrdom at the order of Henry VIII. Interesting man, Sir Thomas. He had six Lutherans burned at the stake while Henry VIII was still a Most Catholic King and Defender of the Faith. Its nice to know you can still get to heaven after burring folks for their beliefs.
 

I'm only here to defend my church from un-substantiated lies.

You want freedom to attack, but I believe we have the same freedom to defend is from attacks

I don't have a cause, no matter what happens I'll be a Catholic, and never tried to convince anybody, but you have an agenda of convincing more people towards atheism.


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 02 2014 at 21:36
            
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Points: 13064 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2014 at 23:52
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

No you can't. The statistics you provided are utterly useless to your case. You don't have a clue. In no instances that you provide is there a cover-up of the magnitude that the Vatican and its bishops are guilty of. In none of the data you provided does a) the school protect the rapist or keep them on the payroll, nor did the state or country protect the pedophile, or b) the Protestant Church leaders retain the ministers in question, nor did they maintain a cover-up on a nationwide or international scale,  or c) no organization kept the information secret for over a half-century, or offer attorneys to defend the criminal in court. Yet the Catholic Church did.
 
Popes, along with their Cardinals and bishops in numerous countries, operated a criminal cover-up to save face for the Church. Not protect their sheep as is their supposed "God-given" duty as Church shepherds, but f*ck the flock. And this they did, over and over and over for decades and even centruries, while thousands of souls in their care were destroyed. 

I'm not guessing, I have statistics, you are guessing on the other hand

You say my statistics are useless, but you present nothing except your words to contradict them,.
 
There is no guessing involved. Your statistics involve individual criminals and are not part of a country-wide or international or even an organization-wide cover-up akin to the Vatican child abuse scandal. This is unprecedented in scope, in both years and the fact it involves an international leader WHO CANNOT BE PROSECUTED FOR HIS CRIMES DUE TO DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY.
 
Pity, Ratzinger should be jailed, don't you think? He could discover in prison what his priests were doing to little boys for decades.
 
But you require cut-and-paste nonsense, and so I shall oblige...
 
I have not heard that the Archbishop of Canterbury had to answer to the UN for a child abuse scandal in the Anglican Church:
 
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0116/Vatican-taken-to-task-by-UN-on-child-abuse.-Will-the-church-change-video
 
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/16/22324032-un-slams-vatican-for-efforts-to-cover-up-pedophile-priests-in-sex-abuse-scandal?lite
 
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/01/16/uk-vatican-rights-sex-idUKBREA0F14C20140116
 
http://www.smh.com.au/world/vatican-grilled-by-un-over-child-abuse-20140117-hv8ru.html
 
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3977473.ece
 
I have not heard that the Patriarch of Constantinople or any other Primate of the Eastern Orthodox Church was personally implicated in a child abuse cover-up:
 
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/pope-led-coverup-of-child-abuse-by-priests-7220621.html
 
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/11/pope-complicit-child-abuse-say-victims
 
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/03/the_great_catholic_coverup.html
 
The President of the Lutheran World Federation or the President of the Baptist World Alliance never had to defend himself against these damning reports:
 
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/roman_catholic_church_sex_abuse_cases/
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348298/Vatican-told-Irish-Catholic-bishops-cover-child-abuse-says-letter.html
 
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/1/21/sex-abuse-files-on30chicagopriestsgopublictuesday.html
 
Even the new General of the Salvation Army never had to wade through the pedophilic muck left by his predecessor :
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/11/us-vatican-law-idUSBRE96A0PQ20130711
 
http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/much-stake-francis-vatican-sex-abuse-moves
 
If you need more, I can post them. Page upon page of them. Which of the criminals you cut-and-pasted has been linked to an international cover-up?

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:


You want freedom to attack, but I believe we have the same freedom to defend is from attacks

I don't have a cause, no matter what happens I'll be a Catholic, and never tried to convince anybody, but you have an agenda of convincing more people towards atheism.
I don't post on the Christian thread as a rule, and haven't for some time, because you can't really argue with people that hallucinate and suffer from delusions. Truthfully, I don't post on the Atheist thread very often unless someone starts posting religious nonsense. So I'd make a pretty poor missionary proselytizing the Word.LOL
 
But please, show me anywhere that I have an agenda of convincing more people towards atheism. I could care less what people believe. I take a dim view of religion, particularly the institutions, and I voice it. But if you prefer to believe in benevolent dieties floating amongst the clouds mumbling platitudes, then enjoy.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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