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Joined: March 29 2013
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Topic: The Day Prog Was Born! Posted: October 25 2013 at 17:08
I was watching the BBC documentary "Prog Rock Britannia" yesterday and it pretty much confirmed what I believe to be the birthday of prog rock; but it got me wondering what my PA brothers and sisters thought. I put a poll together with entries covering what I've heard are the most common different opinions on when prog was born.
The poll begins with the release date of the oldest album to be ranked on PA (Miles Davis - "Round About Midnight") and moves through Brian Wilson's/Beach Boys studio masterpiece "Pet Sounds" (the album that inspired Paul McCartney to create Sgt Pepper) through Zappa's "Freak Out" (arguably the first "concept album") to the first appearance of prog's signature instrument, The Mighty Mellotron (Beatles "Strawberry Fields Forever") to Procol Harum's Bach-influenced single "A Whiter Shade of Pale (remember, in the early days prog was dubbed "Classical Rock") to the legendary Beatles Sgt Peppers (the first album to include lyrics printed on the cover and opened the 'anything is possible' flood gates) to Pink Floyd's psychedelic debut on to the first orchestra/prog collaboration (Moody Blues "Day's of Future Passed") and finally with the album that changed prog forever, In the Court of the Crimson King. I also left an "Other" vote so please tell us what date you believe should have been included and why.
Who gets the credit for the birth of prog rock?
And if you're curious to check out the BBC documentary, here 'tis. Have Fun!
Edited by The.Crimson.King - October 25 2013 at 17:08
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Posted: October 25 2013 at 17:13
all of the ones mentioned up to '69 all predate prog rock, but i chose King Crimson because i believe that In the Court of the Crimson King is also the first TRUE prog rock album
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Posted: October 25 2013 at 17:33
Its a contentious issue where prog began discussed ad infinitum on the PA threads ere. I did some research into this to help with my mammoth undertaking the 1000 Prog albums you must hear before you die thread.
i worked on that thread for years and came up with some thoughts...
I could never work out where it began. Bill Haley, Elvis and The Beatles have an incredible influence undoubtedly on rock itself - the prog part has to come from the odd time sigs and experimental use of instruments and odd time sigs along with quirky lyrics that are not about just love, cos the world is actually not just about love and love does not really make the world go around (the lyricists lied to us there).
If anyone asked me where prog began 5 albums shoot into my mind immediately. Freak Out by Zappa, Sgt Peppers by Beatles, influenced by Pet Sounds BBoys, King Crimsons ITCOTCK of course and then VDGG's early album prior to the 70s kicking in. Aerosol GreY machine - tho its not all that good. .
Miles Davis is important with "Miles Smiles" in 1966 but too jazzy to be the birth of prog - its jazz revved up with experimentalism. So anyway i still cant go past Zappas Freak out - it was so early and freakish it has to be influential - tho Zappa was just trying to be out of the box rather than invent a genre. I voted for him anyway tho still believe Beatles Sgt Pepper is the beginning of Prog proper. King Crimson took it to the next level and perhaps had the definitive Prog Album consistently - but the songs on Zappa album are too proggish to be ignored.
I would say from my prog experience that there are 7 wonders of the prog world in the way of songs: Van Der Graaf Generator's 'A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers', Yes' 'Close To The Edge', ELP's 'Karn Evil 9', King Crimson's '21st Century Schizoid Man', Pink Floyd's 'Shine On', Rush's '2112', and Genesis' 'Supper's Ready'.
The seven wonders of the prog world in the way of albums are similar as far as I am concerned: Van Der Graaf Generator's "Pawn Hearts", Yes' "Close To The Edge", ELP's "Brain Salad Surgery", King Crimson's "In The Court of The Crimson King", Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of The Moon", Jethro Tull's "Thick As A Brick", and Genesis' "Foxtrot".
1966 must include "Miles Smiles" and "Freak Out!"
Here are the albums that all should be included in the birth of Prog in 1967
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band The Beatles
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Posted: October 25 2013 at 17:37
Procol Harum were the first band I really associated with prog, but it's hard to put a firm time and date on prog's birth.
Definitely not King Crimson! Floyd, The Moodies and BJH had being playing true prog well before KC arrived (though BJH hadn't actually recorded an album yet, their live shows were prog).
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Posted: October 25 2013 at 18:24
This old argument again...?
Well....imho the early lp's from Moody Blues, Procol, Beatles, etc....are proto prog and not true full blown prog ....so I'm going to have to say that KC- ITCOTCK was the first actual prog lp. It's far more intense and complete than what was done before.
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Posted: October 25 2013 at 18:30
I was gonna vote Freak Out! but fudge it, I went with Pet Sounds instead. The Beatles claimed both albums to be an influence on Pepper. 1965/66 seems to be the right time for the birth of "underground" music (as it was known then). Miles didn't have an influence on what became known as "progressive rock" until In A Silent Way.
Prog (as we know it) evolved. It didn't appear out of nowhere all of a sudden, and it never completely went away since the 1960s.
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Posted: October 25 2013 at 20:53
silverpot wrote:
The Moodies! Always The Moodies. KC was highly inspired by them and even bought one of their mellotrones.
Don't tell me they're just proto-prog because that's just bollox. They were an incredible inspiration for all serious artists ever after.
Good band....always liked them....but.sadly they were afraid to tour with KC in the very beginning because they were afraid they would get blown off the stage because KC were so good..
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Posted: October 26 2013 at 00:44
I guess everyone look at this differently. Like said before, prog wasn't created in a day, so there isn't just one album who started the whole genre. I guess all of these albums and a few more have planted the seeds for it's creation as we know it today, what those albums did was to experiment with jazz or rock if you want to call it the birth of prog that's also fine. As I see it King Crimson didn't just experimented, they knew what they were doing so the outcome came out as a 100% album with an entirely new direction with a different level of songwriting and execution.
But another album which can be considered as a full on prog rock is "Touch" which came out in 1968.
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Posted: October 26 2013 at 01:31
I do not hold that there is any particular date when Prog was born; its various elements evolved over time and in different sequences. That said, I would go with the earliest rock album on this list, Pet Sounds by The Beach Boys. The album is truly a masterpiece which helped to elevate pop and rock as well as setting a standard that has rarely been matched. It has aged surprisingly well, and much better than Sgt. Pepper's, even though I enjoy the latter more. All the other albums listed that came afterwards added significant elements to the evolution of Prog yet each built on the standard set by Pet Sounds. Without it, the others may very well have not happened, or at least not in the form the actually took. I exclude 'Round Midnight because it is clearly jazz and has no relation to rock music of any kind.
The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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Posted: October 26 2013 at 02:59
Progosopher wrote:
I do not hold that there is any particular date when Prog was born; its various elements evolved over time and in different sequences. That said, I would go with the earliest rock album on this list, Pet Sounds by The Beach Boys. The album is truly a masterpiece which helped to elevate pop and rock as well as setting a standard that has rarely been matched. It has aged surprisingly well, and much better than Sgt. Pepper's, even though I enjoy the latter more. All the other albums listed that came afterwards added significant elements to the evolution of Prog yet each built on the standard set by Pet Sounds. Without it, the others may very well have not happened, or at least not in the form the actually took. I exclude 'Round Midnight because it is clearly jazz and has no relation to rock music of any kind.
I am a big fan of The Beach Boys. If this (my fav song by them) is not proggy, then I don't know what proggy is:
Though, I think that the Strawberry Fields Forever / Penny Lane, as the single, made that; more than Sgt Pepers and Pet Sounds as the albums. The British Progressive Rock was born with the single.
Simply because before 13 February 1967, nobody did do so great Progressive Rock song as The Beatles' Strawberry Fields Forever.
And it is better that Strawberry Fields Forever was released as the single, because that attention of audience was more 'concetrated' on that very song than it eventualy be the case if the song was placed on the Sgt. Pepper's.
That melody, lyrics,... it really was the very first child of prog.
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The Day Prog Was Born!
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Well....imho the early lp's from Moody Blues, Procol, Beatles, etc....are proto prog and not true full blown prog ....so I'm going to have to say that KC- ITCOTCK was the first actual prog lp. It's far more intense and complete than what was done before.
silverpot wrote:
