Dream Theater - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

SharpenTheeTeeth View Drop Down

Forum Newbie

Joined: September 17 2013
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 6

Posted: September 17 2013 at 06:13

At least they still remember how to write SONGS, not these 15-min long wackos Confused

Edited by SharpenTheeTeeth - September 17 2013 at 06:13

Tzeentchian View Drop Down

Forum Newbie

Joined: September 12 2013
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 14

Posted: September 17 2013 at 09:09

SharpenTheeTeeth wrote:

At least they still remember how to write SONGS, not these 15-min long wackos Confused

I thought the 15-min long wackos were the only reason to listen to DT.

Seriously, though, I kind of agree with you. Some bands definitely have the ability to make long, interesting songs. I've always thought that the long DT songs are mostly just... long. But then again, since "Illumination Theory" is in fact my favorite off of the new album, I guess I will have to revise that statement.

Catcher10

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17845

Posted: September 17 2013 at 12:17

Cybion wrote:

Catcher10 wrote:

Cybion wrote:

Well, hello everyone!!

As far as I understand, Steven Wilson doesn't really dig Dream Theater; and unfortunately nothing is going to change because they have a contract with Roadrunner records, which caters to a mainstream metal community, making it almost necessary for them to have a loud mix.

I am really pleased with this album even though I didn't really care about either single, there are other good songs in there that make up for it.

...and Illumination theory is a masterpiece.

Cheers!

A mixing engineer, producer I don't think has to "dig" the band they are working for, I am sure it could help.......What is needed, as you note about the loudness issue, is someone who understands how to mix the apporopriate levels.

Bob Ludwig, master sound engineer, has worked on recordings by everyone from Rush, Nirvana ,Led Zep, Madonna, Hendrix to Clapton.....a gazillion others he has worked on. I would be shocked if he "dug" them all. I do not believe the record label that is releasing the album has say so on who the artist can use to work on an album. This part is always contracted out, read the liner notes on most albums......there are many entities involved in making a record.

I was talking about Steven Wilson in particular, as he will not work with someone if he doesn't like them, he is the art guy who will choose his project kinda guy.

I understand your point as I am a recording engineer and often find myself working with stuff that I wouldn't have chosen to participate on. At that point it is all about frequencies and making sounds happen.

Loudness standards keep changing and that is hurting music in general. I Don't really think that changing the producer will change anything because, as I pointed out before, their label will manage their final sound, which is meant to be delivered to the ipod community, guys with earbuds, car stereos, iphone mono speakers and so on. This is not wrong, but in this case, going to +6db does make a difference, and sadly, people like me (us?) feel rather disappointed because we take the time to listen through the moods and nuances in the music, and that is gone.

That aside, once again.. Illumination Theory is an amazing song, it goes everywhere, it's all over the place, LaBrie uses every single trick in his book, and in the end, the entire song is somehow coherent. A MA ZING!

10-4...we agree on the loudness issue

. At some point the bands will need to here the buying publics cry of "better sounding music!!" But God how I don't want to have that discussion now or here...its a question for the ages seems.

I am just glad there are some bands that do pay attention to the final sound like SW, Porcupine Tree, Marillion and TFK, especially them as the last two albums they have recorded live on reel to reel....Giving us a real nice final product to listen to and hear all the details you mention.

The recent vinyl releases by DT have been much better sounding than the digital issues I have. These are still produced from digital files but the mixing has been more pleasing........SDoIT and Octavarium are really, really nice on vinyl. Unrelated but even LTE recent vinyl issue is brilliantly done.

Also really glad to read these initial thoughts on the DT album!!! We (and they) soooo need a winner with this one....

Edited by Catcher10 - September 17 2013 at 12:18

jampa17

Prog Reviewer

Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802

Posted: September 17 2013 at 12:50

Diverse, more retro in some places. Mangini is all over the place, which is great. Love the sounds, not that much the mix but it's evident that there's a lot of compression.

So far the album sounds really really great and I think it will grow a lot.

Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.

Cthulhu42

Forum Senior Member

Joined: June 13 2012
Location: R'lyeh
Status: Offline
Points: 249

Posted: September 17 2013 at 16:01

Although I like the new album, it feels like a step down from ADTOE, IMO. I'd put it about on par with Octavarium (it reminds me of it too, in how it's made up of mostly shorter songs with a 20-minute epic at the end).

progbethyname View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7849

Posted: September 17 2013 at 17:10

http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=95670

Hey DT fans. In case you don't wanna wait for the album release next week. ;)

Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣

darkshade

Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964

Posted: September 17 2013 at 18:27

I listened to the stream once yesterday. It was definitely a different kind of album, with lots of lighter, proggy moments; and the epic at the end gave me chills down my spine, which usually doesn't happen the first time I hear an epic, even Octavarium didn't do much for me on first listen.

I'm going to wait til this weekend and get my copy before I listen again, but I can't wait to get it.

My Last.fm

Mr. Mustard View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: May 06 2012
Location: Maine, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 207

Posted: September 17 2013 at 19:11

Meh, the epic is the only high point for me, but even then it feels a bit disjointed. And my god this is probably the worst sounding album i've ever heard production-wise. Just a thick wall of sound. Disappointing, but still need to give it more listens I suppose.

zumacraig

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 10 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1301

Posted: September 17 2013 at 19:32

it is compressed as hell. would you expect anything else? too bad, as petrucci wanted that chocolate cake sound. at least it's not reverbed to hell and back. the drums are dry, which makes up for some of compression and you can hear myung here and there. i like the third song a lot.

Stardust we are.
-Roine Stolt

progbethyname View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7849

Posted: September 17 2013 at 20:32

darkshade wrote:

I listened to the stream once yesterday. It was definitely a different kind of album, with lots of lighter, proggy moments; and the epic at the end gave me chills down my spine, which usually doesn't happen the first time I hear an epic, even Octavarium didn't do much for me on first listen.I'm going to wait til this weekend and get my copy before I listen again, but I can't wait to get it.

Yeah. I'm with you on this and I must say its nice to hear some positive enthusiasm about the record. I'm really looking forward to the epic as well. I think I will get a lot out of this record. Anyway, like you I'll be getting it next week and I'll run it through my own sound equipment and then judge to see the sound production is weak as some have said here already.

Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣

sukmytoe

Forum Senior Member

Joined: March 18 2013
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 291

Posted: September 18 2013 at 01:38

I don't know if this is what I expected from the band with this release however I will say that I do enjoy it - a lot. In many ways still the same but in many ways different as well if that makes any sense.

Catcher10

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17845

Posted: September 18 2013 at 09:40

Mr. Mustard wrote:

Meh, the epic is the only high point for me, but even then it feels a bit disjointed. And my god this is probably the worst sounding album i've ever heard production-wise. Just a thick wall of sound. Disappointing, but still need to give it more listens I suppose.

I have only heard Enemy Within song, which is a normal rock/metal song to me..I will wait till next week for the album release.

But the thought of a bad production job, again....is annoying at a minimum. They need to spend some money on better mixing, production, sound engineer folks than what they are doing now.

Lets hope it is compressed due to this web streaming release....

zumacraig

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 10 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1301

Posted: September 18 2013 at 11:43

Catcher10 wrote:

I have only heard Enemy Within song, which is a normal rock/metal song to me..I will wait till next week for the album release.

But the thought of a bad production job, again....is annoying at a minimum. They need to spend some money on better mixing, production, sound engineer folks than what they are doing now.

Lets hope it is compressed due to this web streaming release....

i don't think they have any control over the final product. i bet hearing them in the studio is unrecognizable when compared to the albums. unfortunately, metal and prog either don't care, are helpless or don't care about mixing and mastering. with technology the way it is, every album should sound like steely dan's aja. pristine and warm. DT deserves it.

Stardust we are.
-Roine Stolt

darkshade

Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964

Posted: September 18 2013 at 12:16

I think the stream adds more compression, I guarantee the CD sounds 1000 times better. I remember the same thing happening with ADTOE when OTBOA was on youtube.

My Last.fm

SharpenTheeTeeth View Drop Down

Forum Newbie

Joined: September 17 2013
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 6

Posted: September 18 2013 at 12:55

Mr. Mustard wrote:

And my god this is probably the worst sounding album i've ever heard production-wise.

have you heard "Death Magnetic" or the new Black Sabbath record?

Tzeentchian wrote:

Some bands definitely have the ability to make long, interesting songs. I've always thought that the long DT songs are mostly just... long

the funniest thing is that most of them are still SONGS, i.e. you just have a 5-min song stuffed with 10 mins of unneeded soloing. Meh

I really think they should try something new, ANYTHING new. Look how PoS shines on "Road Salt", I wish DT would have been this innovative!

Horizons

Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 16952

Posted: September 18 2013 at 13:56

I don't think Road Salt is a time when PoS "shined"

Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.

Catcher10

Forum Senior Member

VIP Member

Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17845

Posted: September 18 2013 at 14:52

darkshade wrote:

I think the stream adds more compression, I guarantee the CD sounds 1000 times better. I remember the same thing happening with ADTOE when OTBOA was on youtube.

Wow!! You guarantee it will sound 1000 times better....The 5 second rule applies here for you to recant your post, other wise we will hold you to it.....

1 mississippi.....2 mississippi.....

rogerthat

Prog Reviewer

Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869

Posted: September 21 2013 at 23:07

I really liked Looking Glass. But had to pull out of listening to all songs on the stream because it became too much of too loud for me at some point. There is some spark in Looking Glass at least but I would still like to hear more chords and keyboard-guitar interplay rather than solos following each other.

zumacraig

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 10 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 1301

Posted: September 22 2013 at 09:39

Looking Glass is good. It does sound like sh*t though. The album wont be much better, me thinks. Who'd a thought making music unlistenable would be a marketing tack? Especially music that requires attentive listening and is quite intricate.

Stardust we are.
-Roine Stolt

rogerthat

Prog Reviewer

Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869

Posted: September 22 2013 at 10:30

Well, it IS a major label release so while you or I may want intricacy in a record, maybe the label figures a lot of people want something loud first up to grab their attention.