Evolution of your prog subgenre preferences - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Toaster Mantis View Drop Down

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Topic: Evolution of your prog subgenre preferences
Posted: September 21 2013 at 03:31

Enlightening discussion that's come out of this, one of the things I like about the ProgArchives community is that many of the regular posters here have been fans of prog rock since its heyday in the 1960s/1970s and hence have experienced its evolution in the original historical context. Something you don't always see on genre-specific music forums.

"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook

Gallifrey

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Posted: September 19 2013 at 22:12

I've never really liked much symphonic, but for some odd reason I love neo-prog. I guess, from the PA subgenres, I'm fairly certain I'll like anything in Neo and Heavy, and I'll normally look up new releases in those genres. In terms of changing over time, I've actually noticed that my tastes have changed ever since I've stopped coming here as often and using RateYourMusic more, because it's a far more broad range of music. Recently I've been getting into Indie Folk, Atmospheric Black Metal, Avant-Garde Metal, Dark Folk and I've even started to appreciate hip hop.

I'm not sure where that would put me in the PA genre system, but I still love the Neo and Heavy sections.

http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/

RedNightmareKing View Drop Down

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Posted: September 19 2013 at 19:52

Symph for a long time, mixed with some KC and Floyd. Then last year, jazz fusion took more root, alongside prog metal. More recently, I've been getting really into space/psych alongside experimental metal and post-rock.

I consider drone metal to be progressive...

King Crimson776 View Drop Down

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Posted: September 19 2013 at 18:06

Was into Moodies and somewhat Floyd, which lead into classic symph, because it's the most famous. I'm basically into all styles of classic prog, with perhaps the 'eclectic' bands being my favorites for a while (essentially symph with some elements of avant and jazz-rock). Symph is my favorite for a while now. It generally has the most emotionality to it. I've never been big on zehul and kraut, too repetitive and... pessimistic I guess. Very stark music. I got way more into progressive electronic somewhat recently though. It's very soothing and transportive. It's repetitive but it evolves and has a lush 'blanket' of sound to it.

Guldbamsen View Drop Down

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Posted: September 18 2013 at 10:09

moshkito wrote:

tamijo wrote:

...

Yes, i think what we are all trying to say is, I feel a trend going from a little more of this, and a little less of that.

Not totaly excluding or including anything.

I see that ... the only issue is, that while you listen to one thing, you are not hearing one other, or a couple of others, that are also worthy of your listening attention ... and this is the reason why I say ... I listen to "music" ... not a style.

It comes off, to me, like blinders on a set of ears ... and I have to be honest with you ... that is the one thing I never want to experience!

But it is possible that there could be a relationship between many of these ... albeit, we all can create a relationship by snapping our fingers, and that is one thing I am accused of all the time here with "krautrock" and the West Coast psychedelia thing ... many of these movements being tied up to other arts ... the we ... HERE ... are not willing to check out, understand, or come anywhere to relating to it. As such, a lot of this "relationship" and "evolution" is lost ... and the music (or any art) loses its soul ... it's like Nurse Ratchet took a part of your brain out!

Remember ... it's not her fault ... she's only doing her job being a part of the society she is also a slave to!

(sorry ... couldn't help it!)

I'm sorry Mosh, but I think you're losing us here Confused

He actually said almost exactly what you are referring to, only in a more comprehensible manner. And I'm dying to know, how on earth are you able to know what the other members of PA are not willing to check out? I mean, in your own words here, even you yourself are missing the plot, because you are listening to - let's just say rock music. Oh my word!!! Then you're not listening to all of the other arts like polka and the fabulous whims of the Hawaii swing orchestras. I would kindly urge you to stop speaking for others, when you have no clue of what we mean, when we use these 'boxes'. How could you ever? I'll have you know that most of the friends I've garnered here on this board listen to a wide variety of music - stemming from all over these subgenres - and they're quite capable of using these lingo terms to communicate the music, NOT to identify it with. The music comes first, and then afterwards we often use these reference points when we engage with others. How is that foul play? Are we not allowed to use the language in the way this site outriggers it?

And of course you're right, when you say that we aren't listening to other things, when we're listening to one. That's because we prefer to listen to one thing at a time Tongue

(sorry ... couldn't help it!)

Edited by Guldbamsen - September 18 2013 at 11:01

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TODDLER

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Posted: September 18 2013 at 09:44

First I heard King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Yes, Jethro Tull, Genesis, ELP and of course I experienced this in the early 70's. Made friends with a magician my age and his relative turned us on to his album collection. I recall that he had just arrived from Germany and decided to leave the collection of albums with us. That was sometime in the mid to late 70's. In that collection was David Bedford, Guru, Guru, Gong, Man, Ange, Klaus Schulze, Ashra Temple, Cosmic Jokers, Popol Vuh, Terry Riley, Curved Air, Far East Family Band, White Noise, Fields, Rare Bird, Tangerine Dream, and there must have been close to 2000 albums..so you get the picture. When I was about 11 years old in 1967, I had albums by Walter Carlos (now Wendy), Beaver & Krause, Ruth White, Mort Garson, Pauline Oliveros and lots of music from the 20th century avant composers. Except for Carlos, it revolved mostly around electronic music of the American underground scene at the time. Bands like The Rolling Stones and The Beatles/George Harrison were consulting with Beaver & Krause who were like students of Bob Moog.

This was the exact time period when the American Electronic scene gained the interest of the British bands and the Beatles, Rolling Stones , and several others started to sound weird. I say weird because at age 11 ...hearing the Stones and the Beatles since 65' and all of a sudden...they explode into this new realm..was very impressionable to my mind. That was when the idea's were fused with Rock and the music became something completely different. Piper At the Gates of Dawn and Saucerful of Secrets were scary then. An almost frightning listening experience because nothing else on the planet existed quite like that. Those were very strange times and it molded me into a very recluse life as a child.

Edited by TODDLER - September 18 2013 at 09:51

moshkito

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Posted: September 18 2013 at 09:12

tamijo wrote:

...

Yes, i think what we are all trying to say is, I feel a trend going from a little more of this, and a little less of that.

Not totaly excluding or including anything.

It comes off, to me, like blinders on a set of ears ... and I have to be honest with you ... that is the one thing I never want to experience!

Remember ... it's not her fault ... she's only doing her job being a part of the society she is also a slave to!

(sorry ... couldn't help it!)

Edited by moshkito - September 18 2013 at 09:18

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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progbethyname View Drop Down

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Posted: September 17 2013 at 22:58

^ great story.

Oh boy. Let's see.. Ok Heavy Prog ( Rush) started it all for me on a heavier listening love for music.
This quickly lead to Metal and all kinds of Metal at that. Metallica really was the main provoker for me to dive into the metal scene much deeper and course this lead to more progressive art forms of metal based music...Prog metal, tech extreme and experimental.

Other evolutionary charts for music listening includes my love for electronic and goth music.
Depeche Mode was the main catalyst for that, which lead to Nine Inch Nails, The Cure and later down the road Saviour Machine.
I have continued the journey for many years now with Electronic music in general. Electronic music is very progressive and extremely interesting to me and my core bands that have lead me to other great and more modern electronic bands are Autechure, The Future Sound Of London, Tangerine Dream(blue years) and Vangelis have been invaluable to my evolving of sub genres and music styles.

So Metal, Prog Metal, Neo Prog and Progressive Electronic are my top four music genres/sub genres. These four have lead me to all other kinds of Prog like folk, Zheul, post math/RIO, crossover etc etc etc.
I really do have an appreciation for it all, but I am forever indebt to RUSH, DEPECHE MODE and METALLICA for building what I think I have is a beautiful diverse music collection.
Without Metal or electronic music I'd have no passion or drive to love or collect music in the first place. I don't know how else I would have been hit hard with the music bug if you will.

So to be clear. Heavy Prog---Metal--Electronic=everything else under the sun. Lol
Hope I made sense here....agh I'm going to bed. Lol

Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣

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Posted: September 17 2013 at 22:09

I grew up hearing the music of my parents' wild parties: The Beatles, Sergio Mendes Brazill '66, Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass, Burt Bacharach, The Fifth Dimension. I myself became an AM radio junkie--being in Detroit, that meant R&B, Motown, Soul. '68-72 was an amazing time for AM music in Detroit. In 1972 my brother started bringing home albums from the likes of The Rolling Stones, Mott The Hoople, Robin Trower, Alvin Lee, Humble Pie, Uriah Heep, and Blue Oyster Cult. Demons and Wizards changed my life forever--I became an FM radio listener, and album-oriented listener, an audiophile in terms of quality listening equipment.

Technological advances in instruments and recording wowed me: Art/Album Rock, Mellotron, Moog, Hendrix, Alan Parsons (DSOTHM), Todd Rundgren, Brian Eno, Fairlight, Linn, Synclavier, Simmons, World Music influences, David Sylvian, Jon Hassell, Cocteau Twins all engaged me deeply. At the same time I began to dabble in "jazz" --the fusion scene, and, eventually, the older jazz masters and their classic albums.

But then I started hearing classical music on FM radio: Mozart & Haydn and their predecessors were my gateway into the classical world with my goal of being able to understand, appreciate, and perhaps "like" both opera and 20th Century composers. I think the Baroque and early Classical compositions with their more mathematical patterns and constructs and straightforward key structures were easier to understand and enjoy. More complex Classical music and jazz seemed to grow within me side by side.

Then, in the 90s, marriage and children came along and with it a period of very mainstream "Adult" and children's music (though in the closet I was enjoying some of the Grunge coming through). The likes of Everything But The Girl, Julia Fordham, Kenny Loggins, and Seal graced my ears during this time.

It was not until I was introduced to the internet and with it discovered ProgArchives that my love/obsession with "progressive rock" and, truly, music in general was rekindled. I had never heard of any prog "sub-genres" and had not been exposed to much prog outside of the English speaking world, so, excitedly, I dived into all of the subgenres PA exposed me to. Post Rock/Math Rock was instantly accessible but ultimately kind of boring for its repetitiveness and "one style fits all" formats. Magma and most of the Zeuhl artists wowed me. (MDK remains the single greatest revelation from the 70s that I never heard until recently.) Neo-prog was pretty, familiar, but never leaves me satisfied or keeps my interest. Prog folk fascinates me but doesn't really sink its claws in me. Psych/Space Rock is usually a winner. The metal categories are the most difficult for me as I really don't like all that loud noise--I am, in fact, quite a lover of space and slow development. BUT, RIO/Avant works fascinate me. This is the sub-genre that I probably "work" hardest at in order to get familiar, learn to try to appreciate, and eventually enjoy. This is the subgenre where "rock" seems to progress (or maybe it's regressing away from rock formats, back to classical forms and formats, that really is drawing me to this kind of music). The AltrOck/Fading Rock label is one that gets my full attention for every artist, every release. Thanks to progstreaming.com I am able to enjoy many new releases from a variety of prog subgenres, but I think that it is definitely those artists that are either creating beautiful melodies or pushing the boundaries of familiar music that draw me in the most. Those incredibly talented artists focused on recreating the sounds, styles, and formats of prog's "classic" past are usually quite disappointing to me. Those who take the old sounds and instruments and engage them in new and unusual forms get my attention. Those that take sound and structure into realms I've not heard before get my awe and praise.

I am most fascinated by current artists making music with acoustic instruments--and without the standard "rock" combo formation--which, I guess, might render them non-prog. Drums, in particular, are not missed when I hear music without them.

Blah, blah, blah. Sorry to be so loquacious. I must be drunk. Or tired. Good night.

Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/

WeepingElf View Drop Down

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Posted: September 17 2013 at 12:19

My first contact with prog-like music was when my brother put a Queen Greatest Hits album on his turntable and I was blown away by the Bohemian Rhapsody. Several years later (around 1987), I picked up Pink Floyd, then Marillion and Rush, and yet later Yes and all the others. In the 90s, I was enchanted by Dream Theater (of whom I had first heard in a Rush fan newsgroup), one of my favourites since then. I am now into a wide range of progressive rock, but I could never get the hang of the heady avant-garde stuff, and the "other" kind of "progressive rock" as it is understood in alternative rock circles (Tool etc.) does nothing to me.

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dr wu23

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Posted: September 17 2013 at 10:41

I started in '69 with all the early classic prog bands mostly symphonic ones and around 1980 started listening to more classic rock and whatever was popular in the 80's and early 90's but got back into prog after reuniting with an old friend who turned me onto some obscure ones and other genres and meeting a new friend around 5 years ago who introduced me to even more bands and more obscure ones. For me there wasn't really a progression since I started listening to many types all at once after hooking up with the 'prog king'.

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Posted: September 17 2013 at 08:18

“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

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tamijo

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Posted: September 17 2013 at 08:16

Guldbamsen wrote:

The main difference here Mosh, is that most of the people using these terms here on PA, don't exactly buy into the stickers. I don't believe that. They're merely reference points, so as our peers can better understand where we're coming from, understand what we listen to - and what we dig at any given point in time, and communicating the inherent traits of whatever "style" on the agenda. I understand your sentiments on this, and am very much like that myself. I just don't think most people, be that from the current generation - or the prog rock generation, deals in invisibles, as you call it. It's much easier to use the existing language to convey your opinion instead of having to create a new one, every time you instigate a new conversation.

The real problem is when musicians only think in boxes, when they're making the music. As for us mere mortals, the casual fans, I think it's pretty cool to have words for different branchings of our beloved art form, just like we have distinctions in classical music, varieties of fruit and different clothing fabrics. What you then decide to do with these distinctions, is of course entirely up to yourself. I just don't believe everybody buy into the stickers, and consequentially can't think outside of the box and enjoy the music for the music and nothing else.

Yes, i think what we are all trying to say is, I feel a trend going from a little more of this, and a little less of that.

Not totaly excluding or including anything.

Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours

HemispheresOfXanadu View Drop Down

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Posted: September 17 2013 at 08:05

Rush to classic prog in general to instrumental prog to whatever Beardfish counts as (neoprog?) to tech metal.

tamijo

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Posted: September 17 2013 at 06:03

Get tired og things and want new music, but i wouldent say I dont enjoy the old masters anymore.

Regarding my direction, the last 4-5 years, been spending more time than i did before with :

Heavier Rock, especialy Opeth, TMV, Green Carnation, Tool. many others inside and outside Prog.

This may be the major change, didnt listen to much hardrock before 2000.

Jazz traditionals like Evens, Monk, Webster. (on the other hand, not much with resent Fussion)

Classic artists from modern to contemporary. (Debussy, Scriabin, Shostakovich, Ravel ect ect.)

Avantgarde/Experimental, in the most wide sence of the term.

(from Unexpect over Bondage Fruit to Acid Mothers Temple)

And spend more time with new-age/ambient too. (im beginning to belive in a Japaneese GOD called "Kitarō")

Edited by tamijo - September 17 2013 at 06:06

Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours

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Posted: September 17 2013 at 03:55

Yeah, I'm also only for the purpose of this discussion using the subgenres listed on the side as shorthand for the general stylistic directions they cover, or the social subcultures they came out of which I like exploring from a scholarly perspective. I think it's clear that most of them are meant as guideposts more than anything else, and doubt that very many musicians think in boxes like "eclectic prog" being distinct from "crossover prog" when composing and recording their music. There's some bands I like I've been seriously surprised to find on the archives, and not just under the crossover/eclectic/proto-prog categories. (Current 93, for one)

"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook

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Posted: September 16 2013 at 10:57

The main difference here Mosh, is that most of the people using these terms here on PA, don't exactly buy into the stickers. I don't believe that. They're merely reference points, so as our peers can better understand where we're coming from, understand what we listen to - and what we dig at any given point in time, and communicating the inherent traits of whatever "style" on the agenda. I understand your sentiments on this, and am very much like that myself. I just don't think most people, be that from the current generation - or the prog rock generation, deals in invisibles, as you call it. It's much easier to use the existing language to convey your opinion instead of having to create a new one, every time you instigate a new conversation.

“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

moshkito

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Posted: September 16 2013 at 10:43

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

... I think you're over thinking this a bit, we're not saying we're only listening to one thing (well I'm not). Describing things by genre is just a helpful technique to describe things that have similar traits. Otherwise we'd have to just list all the traits rather than use one word that people understand to cover the style similarities. ...

I learn more if you tell me what ticks for you when listening ... since just catching one "style" tends to limit your expression to your "mental" side of things ... and I trust the inner view better because of the way I am.

I'm a fairly logical and detailed person ... and very good at working with "invisibles", as was the case directing for the stage, and you can see it in my preferences ... I don't direct via any style, and can do all kinds of different theater because of it ... and even create exercises that fit Ionesco that don't fit Shakespeare, or Marlowe!

For me, yes, the designations are fine, but a question like that, kinda defeats the purpose of the genre, which was to help you be able to identify a few things, but not to say ... that artist is now locked up in his closet and can no longer do anything else in his/her life ... and both you and I are going to fight our way out of that one so fast, it wouldn't be funny!

Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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ginodi

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Posted: September 16 2013 at 09:35

I guess I'm like most that have to have things categorized relating to similar traits no matter how I think I do not. I listen to Prog 95% of the time; after working I just want to be taken away (no drugs, or alcohol to help that). Some genres provide that function more than others. I have had great difficulty enjoying post/math, zeuhl, or electronic music, though I have tried to force myself to like it.

I still gravitate towards Italian bands (my mother land), lots of symph (I love classic Ange), eclectic, neo, folk (Jethro Tull always makes me feel fantastic), and Canterbury (Caravan the most). After playing in a Prog metal bands for decades, the metal stuff doesn't do it for me as much anymore (Orphaned Land's All is One is probably my favorite now from that category). I guess it depends on the particular mood for any given day--it is never boring, for sure. The other 5%? Some classic rock and Alt-country (Ryan Adams, Son Volt) for a bit of change.

Yesterday, I had my six-year old daughter with me on a trip to the grocery store (she loves Banco and Steven Wilson's new one), and I had on Pink Floyd's, "Dark Side of the Moon." We arrive and I take her out of her car seat, and she asks, "are we going to listen to that on the way back home?" I responded, "why, did you not like it?" Her reply: "that was amazing!" I am starting her off right.

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Posted: September 16 2013 at 08:21

I think you're over thinking this a bit, we're not saying we're only listening to one thing (well I'm not). Describing things by genre is just a helpful technique to describe things that have similar traits. Otherwise we'd have to just list all the traits rather than use one word that people understand to cover the style similarities.

So I find myself listening to a lot of music that features regular use of dissonance and atonality, extremely complex and unpredictable song arrangements, free or experimental improvisation, fusion of disparate musical genres and polyrhythms and highly complex time signatures. Isn't it more easily understood to say Avant?

Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/