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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: September 12 2013 at 17:39
Chris S wrote:
Deans covered most of em, but also Talking Heads, The Sound, Ralph Towner and many from ECM, John Cale, Brian Eno,and all our prog artists already on PA, oh Prefab Sprout and Everything But The Girl, Portishead...the list goes on.
Anyone who thinks the 80's was a disappointment should perhaps go see a shrink
Aye, my list is far from definative (I think Portishead are a little later though), I could add Nick Cave and The Bad Seeds, The Birthday Party, The Wedding Present, Einstürzende Neubauten, Gang Of Four, Soup Dragons, The Shamen, Rose of Avalanche, PIL, My Bloody Valentine, ...And the Native Hipsters, The Marionettes, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry and a host more - there are depths yet to be plumbed.
Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: September 12 2013 at 21:29
The Re-Flex, Icehouse, Danny Wilson, Lush, Love and Money, Aztec Camera, Michael Brook, Daniel Lanois, Art of Noise, Style Council, The Moon and the Melodies, Toad the Wet Sprocket, It's Immaterial, Jesus and Mary Chain, Robert Palmer, Kip Hanrahan, Arto Linday & The Ambitious Lovers, Ryuichi Sakamoto, Material, Martha and the Muffins, The League of Gentleman, The Neville Brothers, Gang of Four, Johnny Warman, W.O.M.A.D., Adrian Belew, The Smiths, The Roches, Tom Tom Club, David & Steve Gordon, Mickey Hart, Jean-Luc Ponty, Jean-Pierre Rampal, Gene Loves Jezebel, Annette Peacock, Jane Siberry, Bruce Cockburn, Lene Lovitch, Jon Hassell, John McLaughlin, Clannad, and The Chieftans, to name a few, were also doing quite interesting things in the 80s.
Joined: October 12 2007
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Points: 2779
Posted: September 12 2013 at 22:05
Toaster Mantis wrote:
Out of curiosity: Which specific artists/records/composition would you use as examples of how to do minimalism the right and wrong ways? Also, modern electronic music is extremely heterogenous.
Good (genius) minimalism is Music for 18 Musicians. That piece is, paradoxically, amazingly complex. It's lush and beautiful. Bad is minimal electronic that just bludgeons away mind-numbingly. Anything labeled "electronic" as a genre is basically minimalism, I've found.
Joined: September 20 2010
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Posted: September 12 2013 at 23:58
King Crimson776 wrote:
Toaster Mantis wrote:
Out of curiosity: Which specific artists/records/composition would you use as examples of how to do minimalism the right and wrong ways? Also, modern electronic music is extremely heterogenous.
Good (genius) minimalism is Music for 18 Musicians. That piece is, paradoxically, amazingly complex. It's lush and beautiful. Bad is minimal electronic that just bludgeons away mind-numbingly. Anything labeled "electronic" as a genre is basically minimalism, I've found.
Agreed about Music for 18 Musicians (1978), that's monumental masterpiece. But, another Mr Reich's album recorded for ECM is my fav by him. Do you heard Tehillim (1981)? If you're not heard yet, I recommend this album to you. Tehillim is one of the best LPs in '80s.
Joined: April 12 2008
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 04:35
King Crimson776 wrote:
Anything labeled "electronic" as a genre is basically minimalism, I've found.
Even relatively involved stuff like later Autechre, Future Sound of London or Venetian Snares?
I guess I should mention that I'm not super into 20th century classical, and it's very possible that most more "popular" electronic music (for lack of a better categorization) sounds less impressive if you're familiar with that tradition. After all, electronica came from Reich/Riley/Stockhausen/etc. through early Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze before Kraftwerk then Giorgio Moroder adapted it to a more pop-friendly format.
"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 05:04
Toaster Mantis wrote:
King Crimson776 wrote:
Anything labeled "electronic" as a genre is basically minimalism, I've found.
Even relatively involved stuff like later Autechre, Future Sound of London or Venetian Snares?
I guess I should mention that I'm not super into 20th century classical, and it's very possible that most more "popular" electronic music (for lack of a better categorization) sounds less impressive if you're familiar with that tradition. After all, electronica came from Reich/Riley/Stockhausen/etc. through early Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze before Kraftwerk then Giorgio Moroder adapted it to a more pop-friendly format.
The relationship between electronic and minimalism is mostly coincidental, the use of sequencers and loops naturally gives way to repetition, but not in the way that minimalism uses repetition. Both can be seen as Repetitive Music, but different and unrelated branches. Electronic music is far from minimalism and far from minimalistic in my experience, though of course there are electronic artists who are also minimalists, and while some of them acknowledge people like Reich and Riley, most do not.
Anything labeled "electronic" as a genre is basically minimalism, I've found.
Even relatively involved stuff like later Autechre, Future Sound of London or Venetian Snares?
I guess I should mention that I'm not super into 20th century classical, and it's very possible that most more "popular" electronic music (for lack of a better categorization) sounds less impressive if you're familiar with that tradition. After all, electronica came from Reich/Riley/Stockhausen/etc. through early Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze before Kraftwerk then Giorgio Moroder adapted it to a more pop-friendly format.
The relationship between electronic and minimalism is mostly coincidental, the use of sequencers and loops naturally gives way to repetition, but not in the way that minimalism uses repetition. Both can be seen as Repetitive Music, but different and unrelated branches. Electronic music is far from minimalism and far from minimalistic in my experience, though of course there are electronic artists who are also minimalists, and while some of them acknowledge people like Reich and Riley, most do not.
Pretty much sums up what I was about to post.
The electronic artists, at least the early ones, did have a fair few minimalistic qualities to their output, but especially the German and French branchings explored new grounds through repetition, that perhaps mimic what most people would refer to as minimalism, yet the focus is another one altogether imho.
Whereas the 'real' minimalism came from classical musicians such as Eric Satie and later got adopted by folks inside the classical sphere, most of the electronic wave of musicians came from untrained explorers of sound. Froese came from the guitar, whereas Schulze approached his music from a drummer's stool. I think this facet shines through in the music, and electronic, as in fully electronic music, became as a consequence of this, obscure and abstract in a way that the minimalistic pioneers could never do - and vice versa. To me personally, it boils down to the difference in background and what then came out at the other end. Just because both of these seemingly similar musical pathways shared a lot of likenesses, there still is a clear distinction in expression, submersible quality and 'feel'.
Bear in mind, that I have absolutely no musical training whatsoever, so I'm basically talking out my ass here
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
Joined: September 20 2010
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 08:32
^ That Berlin School is minimalistic music (more than Mr Reich's repetitive albums) - because 80% of that music is studio effects. They weren't a virtuoso on keys & composers of "baroque" electronic tunes as e.g. Vangelis, they were just great inventors on their machines and THE makers of an amazing and unique atmosphere.
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 10:18
dr wu23 wrote:
Deans list was most interesting and I would add The Police and U2 who both did some excellent lp's and songs in the 80's even though many prog rock elites would ignore them as being too mainstream.
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 10:58
I saw both bands when they were support acts, I'm surprised they got that far to be honest. There is so much in the 80s that was great and worthy of mention, U2 and Police were to 80s post punk what Styx and Aerosmith were to 70s hard rock (ie: okay if you like that kind of thing, just not my cup of darjeeling)
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 11:18
No argue, there was good music in the 80s too. But my overall feeling back then was that this bloody "disco" will stay forever. Fortunately everything ends, including those plastic keyboards and silly drum machines.
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 17:33
Polymorphia wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Luna wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Despite the truly inventive music that was being made - with Pop as much as anything else - in retrospect, the '80s were more or less the vapid and disappointing period we all thought it was.
Care to elaborate? I know that popular music back then really plummeted, but popular music has never really been good.
There have been periods where 'Pop' was high quality, even innovative; Gershwin, the Beach Boys, Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, etc. And there absolutely were some wonderful 1980s acts, Simple Minds, Cocteau Twins, '80s King Crimson, even Yngwie Malmsteen. But if you look at what was happening, the musical movements that were most prevalent as seen on MTV or the Billboard charts, it was artist like INXS, A-ha, George Michael, Huey Lewis, Hall&Oates, and Springsteen's jingoist period that were setting the tone.
I think also for music lovers and musicians, the decade represented a sort of "giving in" to the new clean, clipped & streamlined look and robotic sounds of that period. No one seemed immune, few survived, and drummers and bassists were on the verge of going extinct thanks to new technology. Luckily that never really happened but it could have.
I tend to prefer A-ha over America and Bread. The musical movement that was most prevalent, anyways, was New Wave
which included much better artists than INXS. Are you forgetting Talking Heads, The Fixx, The Cars, and New Order? Or did those never "happen?"
No, not forgetting them. But, though memorable, I'm afraid I count both The Cars and The Fixx as quintessential vacuous 80s artists. 'One Thing Leads to Another' is, at best, an energetic and catchy pop tune. But that's all it is, and therein lies the issue. Talking Heads? Sure, but I think Byrne's latest solo stuff (Love This Giant) is much more interesting.
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 18:28
Atavachron wrote:
Polymorphia wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Luna wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Despite the truly inventive music that was being made - with Pop as much as anything else - in retrospect, the '80s were more or less the vapid and disappointing period we all thought it was.
Care to elaborate? I know that popular music back then really plummeted, but popular music has never really been good.
There have been periods where 'Pop' was high quality, even innovative; Gershwin, the Beach Boys, Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, etc. And there absolutely were some wonderful 1980s acts, Simple Minds, Cocteau Twins, '80s King Crimson, even Yngwie Malmsteen. But if you look at what was happening, the musical movements that were most prevalent as seen on MTV or the Billboard charts, it was artist like INXS, A-ha, George Michael, Huey Lewis, Hall&Oates, and Springsteen's jingoist period that were setting the tone.
I think also for music lovers and musicians, the decade represented a sort of "giving in" to the new clean, clipped & streamlined look and robotic sounds of that period. No one seemed immune, few survived, and drummers and bassists were on the verge of going extinct thanks to new technology. Luckily that never really happened but it could have.
I tend to prefer A-ha over America and Bread. The musical movement that was most prevalent, anyways, was New Wave
which included much better artists than INXS. Are you forgetting Talking Heads, The Fixx, The Cars, and New Order? Or did those never "happen?"
No, not forgetting them. But, though memorable, I'm afraid I count both The Cars and The Fixx as quintessential vacuous 80s artists. 'One Thing Leads to Another' is, at best, an energetic and catchy pop tune. But that's all it is, and therein lies the issue. Talking Heads? Sure, but I think Byrne's latest solo stuff (Love This Giant) is much more interesting.
If I was basing my judgement of them solely on "One Thing Leads to Another" then I would have stated the song title, not the name of the band. The songs are intelligently constructed, and I find them (especially in terms of timbre) much more interesting and less vapid than Genesis or ELP. That claim doesn't stand for all 80s music, but, for plenty of it, it does, which is why I couldn't say with honesty that the 80s was a bad decade for music.
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Posted: September 13 2013 at 18:46
There was nothing particularly 'wrong' with 80's music, it's just that much of it hasn't aged well. I recall when 'Invisible Touch' was all the rave ('86/'87) and at that point in time it had a wonderful, fresh modern sound which, sadly, sounds like muck these days. I wonder what it would've sounded like with, say, the production quality of Rush's 'Moving Pictures'....??
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What was going on in music in the '80s?
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Chris S wrote:
