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manofmystery 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
 Posted: August 10 2013 at 19:53 |
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Believe I smacked that guy down about Reagan pages ago. Love his selective memory.
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 Time always wins. |
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: August 12 2013 at 08:21 |
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Yeah you might want to fact check the part about Reagen's presidency where he did anything to reduce the size and power of government. His role in the war on drugs alone was sufficient to turn this country into a police state. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: August 12 2013 at 08:27 |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: August 12 2013 at 09:00 |
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It's easier for Americans to support it when the victims are those people don't care about (addicts, people living in Mexico, etc).
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: August 12 2013 at 09:02 |
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1. Good. Somewhat at least. I was so proud of Latin America when Uruguay decided to kick free of US-policy-dependency and decided to legalize marijuana. It's a sign of the times, finally the all mighty empire doesn't decide everything that is done south of the Rio Grande. 2. Horrendous. Even in my very catholic country of origin there are quite a lot of people named "Mesias" (Spanish for Messiah). So now people have to comply with the religious believes of judges....
Edited by The T - August 12 2013 at 09:03 |
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thellama73
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: August 12 2013 at 22:33 |
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I'm not into defending Reagan, but you seem to be trying to say that a drastic increase in the average wealth of a country is a bad thing. |
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011 Location: Chattanooga, TN Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
Posted: August 13 2013 at 05:42 |
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It's not an increase of the average wealth. It's an increase of the 1%ers while the rest of us suffer from stagnant wages that count for less and less as inflation goes up. Oh, here's one for you - an insurance company almost lets a dad die over 26 cents! I'm sure if they were just free and there were no laws that would NEVER happen..... |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: August 13 2013 at 07:19 |
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011 Location: Chattanooga, TN Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
Posted: August 13 2013 at 08:39 |
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And we keep coming back to this again and again - YES, there are HUGE problems with our government. Systemic problems with it. You think that leads to the conclusion that there should not BE a government. I think that if we go down that road you will find that the result is not an absence of government, but you will find that the middle man has been eliminated and we'll have a government by the Koch brothers (and other elites like them). I believe that we need government to step into its true role and serve the people - the lower and middle class - rather than the elites. We need government to represent the powerless and protect them from the powerful. YES, you are absolutely correct that the government is corrupt and not doing its job. NO, that doesn't mean get rid of it and let "the people" be in control, because "the people" will not be in control - the corporations will be. |
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: August 13 2013 at 08:48 |
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Again I ask: How do you plan on making that happen? |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: August 13 2013 at 08:49 |
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Is that really what you got out of this post? C'mon.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: August 13 2013 at 08:57 |
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Regarding the cost of health care in the US, I recommend this article:
http://www.wpri.org/Reports/Volume19/Vol19no10.pdf It's 34 pages, but it's broken down into small sections that can each be read at your leisure. |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: August 13 2013 at 23:01 |
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It is an increase in the average wealth by any definition of that term. Look at the graph. 90% of people stay as wealthy as they were in real terms (not exactly terrible, considering the line was flat before Reagan as well) and ten percent of the people (not 1%) get wealthier. Nobody got poorer, some people got richer. If your neighbor gets a raise at his job, does that make you worse off? Do you resent his boss because of the inequality he has created. Rubbish. |
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011 Location: Chattanooga, TN Status: Offline Points: 1708 |
Posted: August 14 2013 at 05:41 |
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But if the line is staying the same - 90% are staying as wealthy as they were before Reagan - but costs (such as healthcare, the cost of housing, etc.) are going up. So you're saying that those 90% are doing as well as they've always done? Rubbish! Edited by dtguitarfan - August 14 2013 at 05:41 |
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
Posted: August 14 2013 at 08:28 |
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llama, by playing devil's advocate you've allowed him to continue on with his "Reagan was a free-market capitalist" fallacy which was discredited as rubbish pages and pages ago.
Edited by manofmystery - August 14 2013 at 08:28 |
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Time always wins. |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: August 14 2013 at 08:35 |
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Look up the difference between "real income" and "nominal income."
You're right. I'm sorry. I'll stop now. |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: August 14 2013 at 08:43 |
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Yeah many of us already bashed Reagan to death, and it may be interesting to note (though I doubt he'll look into it and keep sticking with his party propaganda) that some of the most vicious criticism I've seen of Reagan came from libertarians...my guess is the whole skyrocketing deficits, war mongering, expansion of some government including SS, ramping up drug war may have a little bit to do with it
 edit: Oh and sacking the one Fed head libertarians like and replacing him with Greenspan....
Besides, talk about being selective, note you chose that graph and not some others I've seen showing the stagnation of average wages...liberals always say "since the 80s" but actually wages have stagnated since the early 70s I believe.
I used to care about income inequality alot, my biggest issue, now meh...it's really about the 100% IMO (also I dont see how we can re distribute wealth realistically but thats a whole diff rant)
Only the die hard progressives would care how much sh*ttons of $$ the 1% is making as long as we all are having some improvement. Inequality grew during Clinton as well but no one seems to care about that one
 Actually you're chart is a GOOD thing DT fan. That's the top 10%....that's NOT just the CEOs, bankers, elitists, investors and yadda yadda much of that betterment of the 10% is due to people's hard work, attaining education, getting into new fields of work. I've NEVER seen anyone use the top 10% as criticism (mainly because most of those people actually did work for it) you're bias is so ridiculous I feel bad for even responding!
At least use the cliche "top 1%" line since it holds a bit more ground
Edit: You're even worse than Slarti. He's pretty clueless and stuck to party politics but at least he seems to be legit. You honestly seem like someone who has rescinded his GOP past (good, I'm glad) and thus are over compesating by now being a Dem (shame) basically you're an annoying born again
 Ya know, the super hardcore angry ones that need to prove their old ways were wrong. Edited by JJLehto - August 14 2013 at 08:49 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: August 14 2013 at 09:01 |
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I actually came here to ask how yall feel about the apparent next Fed chair, Larry Summers.
I've only heard the name and that he was a big time economost but with the news I looked into him some more.
The left seems to hate he was a champion of deregulating wall street, the right seems to really hate him for being more Keynesian than the last 3 chairs, and apparently he thinks women have a nautral ineptitude for math and science, dumping waste in poor countries is cool and gambled with Harvard's money and lost over $1 billion (good thing that may not be a terribly big amount to them)
From quick research seems he is another wall street insider. Not sure if he can really do much worse than Greenspan or Ben but surely seems like just another typical Fed head.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: August 14 2013 at 09:30 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: August 14 2013 at 10:25 |
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I thought it would be a bit more silly, like the laws about it being illegal to have ice cream in your back pocket, that was just kind of sad :(
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dtguitarfan wrote:
