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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2013 at 16:29
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

God spoke to me today, told me he doesn't exist


 
Sounds like schizophrenia then.....
 
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2013 at 16:44
Christ may have been a schizophrenic-it would explain a lot, when you think about it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2013 at 16:46
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

God spoke to me today, told me he doesn't exist


 
Sounds like schizophrenia then.....
 
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God had half a mind to tell you herself.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 04:33
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

i have a feeling that time and space are infinite, but we are not. We have a beginning and an ending.
      Death is hard to accept, but it is the real end, as my "gut feeling" dictates to me.
        These are just feelings, mind you.
Current scientific knowledge suggests that time and space (at least time and space in our universe) are not infinite, in the sense that 'they are not infinite in our now'. They were smaller in the past and they have been expanding so they are not infinite, but they may well continue expanding infinitely in the future ('infinitely' meaning until the universe will reach thermodynamic equilibrium, then the concept of time will be meaningless since there will not be any potential for any further change).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 04:37
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Christ may have been a schizophrenic-it would explain a lot, when you think about it.


No 'I' in team but two in schizophrenia.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 07:47
Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

 We don't need god, because even if one true one exists, he ain't much more useful than any of us.  The problem comes when people assume their god is right and their beliefs have implications for the rest of humanity.  

If faith strengthens the believers, then faith in a god can be called useful. 

Collective imagination can surge powerful energies. 

If you're a crowd addict,  the more you trust that the winner of the competition / the exceptional artist have the keys of a kind of supernatural condition – so that your imagination loses itself into an infinite number of guessings about how super-people might achieve what there're doing – the more you may enjoy massive emotional transports .

A god can also originate from the fatherlike inner voice like the one climber Joe Simpson, a non believer, did "obey" to a in order to manage his crawling back from the glacier he'd been trapped into.

While some dream of a world without religion, a lot of apparently very silly popular beliefs keep on running, such as resorting to flowers/plants with "spiritual healing power". Before even trying to debate about how unscientific those healing methods are, you know you'd end up being considered an ignoring jerk. The reason for that is quite simple: the people believing it did probably experiment and trust the power of placebo effect.

As faith, and placebos, can work like a kind of  steroid, they definitely affect our everyday lives one way or another.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 08:36
No one questions that faith can induce a very powerful driving force on humans, I don't think anybody would become a suicide bomber for the fun of it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 11:25
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

No one questions that faith can induce a very powerful driving force on humans, I don't think anybody would become a suicide bomber for the fun of it.

This the current most resounding act of faith indeed !

Yet I'm wondering which percentage of what motivates self killing is actual religious faith. If I were desperate about the World + my future, thinking about death, I'd find extremism a very honourable way for the ultimate act. But wouldn't I kill myself even if no extremists were offering me that exciting killing program ?



Edited by jayem - June 13 2013 at 11:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 11:40
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Christ may have been a schizophrenic-it would explain a lot, when you think about it.
No 'I' in team but two in schizophrenia.
I am uncertain as to what you are implying.
        Schizophrenia is not "Split Personality", or two personalities in one.
          If you are saying that a schizophrenic relies on a "team effort" of two, being a patient with a doctor and diagnosis with treatment, something Christ wouldn't have had, i see your point
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 11:53
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

No one questions that faith can induce a very powerful driving force on humans, I don't think anybody would become a suicide bomber for the fun of it.

This the current most resounding act of faith indeed !

Yet I'm wondering which percentage of what motivates self killing is actual religious faith. If I were desperate about the World + my future, thinking about death, I'd find extremism a very honourable way for the ultimate act. But wouldn't I kill myself even if no extremists were offering me that exciting killing program ?

But this is not how it works. People becoming suicide bombers are often not so desperate, they do it purely on religious faith basis.
There are many people much more desperate who just stick to living, which is also a surprise to me, I often feel that if I was so desperate as some people are I would probably kill myself, but not harming anybody else, and having nothing to do with religious faith.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 12:34
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

No one questions that faith can induce a very powerful driving force on humans, I don't think anybody would become a suicide bomber for the fun of it.

This the current most resounding act of faith indeed !

Yet I'm wondering which percentage of what motivates self killing is actual religious faith. If I were desperate about the World + my future, thinking about death, I'd find extremism a very honourable way for the ultimate act. But wouldn't I kill myself even if no extremists were offering me that exciting killing program ?

But this is not how it works. People becoming suicide bombers are often not so desperate, they do it purely on religious faith basis.
There are many people much more desperate who just stick to living, which is also a surprise to me, I often feel that if I was so desperate as some people are I would probably kill myself, but not harming anybody else, and having nothing to do with religious faith.
This is true. Suicide bombers are not desperate, they are not suicidal, they are not crazy or insane. Without a cause to die for they would live long and happy lives. There is no difference between a suicide bomber and a dead hero, it's simply a matter of choosing a side since both are making the ultimate sacrifice for their cause (which they believe to be a just and honest one because they are true believers who hold the ultimate truth). No one goes to war believing they are the bad guys.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 12:46
Well some just love war. What's a mercenary?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 12:52
I don't imagine there are too many mercenary suicide bombers, or too many mercenary heroes (outside of video games and Hollywood blockbusters).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 13:02
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

Well some just love war. What's a mercenary?
A primitive animal I would guess? I don't even get the 'fun' in hunting animals, so let alone in killing humans. I more or less understand (though not approve) that for some people money can be a very powerful driving force, but those who enjoy fighting or killing even without any financial benefits are purely primitive beings. Hey, even Cesar Millan shows us that even 'predator' animals such as dogs are not aggressive by nature, if they feel balanced and get food they are peaceful as doves!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 16:18
Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Christ may have been a schizophrenic-it would explain a lot, when you think about it.
No 'I' in team but two in schizophrenia.
I am uncertain as to what you are implying.
        Schizophrenia is not "Split Personality", or two personalities in one.
          If you are saying that a schizophrenic relies on a "team effort" of two, being a patient with a doctor and diagnosis with treatment, something Christ wouldn't have had, i see your point


It was just a simple play on words, a joke based on my faulty understanding of a condition that psychiatrist RD Laing famously described as the Divided Self. I wasn't implying anythingConfused
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2013 at 17:59
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:


Originally posted by presdoug presdoug wrote:

Christ may have been a schizophrenic-it would explain a lot, when you think about it.
No 'I' in team but two in schizophrenia.
I am uncertain as to what you are implying.
        Schizophrenia is not "Split Personality", or two personalities in one.
          If you are saying that a schizophrenic relies on a "team effort" of two, being a patient with a doctor and diagnosis with treatment, something Christ wouldn't have had, i see your point
It was just a simple play on words, a joke based on my faulty understanding of a condition that psychiatrist RD Laing famously described as the Divided Self. I wasn't implying anythingConfused
Thanks, i understand, no probs.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2013 at 19:08
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

No one questions that faith can induce a very powerful driving force on humans, I don't think anybody would become a suicide bomber for the fun of it.

This the current most resounding act of faith indeed !

Yet I'm wondering which percentage of what motivates self killing is actual religious faith. If I were desperate about the World + my future, thinking about death, I'd find extremism a very honourable way for the ultimate act. But wouldn't I kill myself even if no extremists were offering me that exciting killing program ?

But this is not how it works. People becoming suicide bombers are often not so desperate, they do it purely on religious faith basis.
There are many people much more desperate who just stick to living, which is also a surprise to me, I often feel that if I was so desperate as some people are I would probably kill myself, but not harming anybody else, and having nothing to do with religious faith.
This is true. Suicide bombers are not desperate, they are not suicidal, they are not crazy or insane. Without a cause to die for they would live long and happy lives. There is no difference between a suicide bomber and a dead hero, it's simply a matter of choosing a side since both are making the ultimate sacrifice for their cause (which they believe to be a just and honest one because they are true believers who hold the ultimate truth). No one goes to war believing they are the bad guys.
 

"they are not crazy or insane". They can clearly make themselves look like normal balanced people, but so do quite a few psychos.  If normal  people will choose war / extremism instead of more peaceful ways, because of the "romantic" ideal war can stand for, don't heroes, on the other hand, all have something desperate in them, longing for an ordeal ?

"they do it purely on religious faith basis." Now let's imagine an Israel-like king invades its atheist neighbour, claiming "God told this land is mine/His". 
The neighbours and its allied armies are too weak to reconquer that land and find no better solution than sending war heroes bomb themselves.

Would they need to invent a religion in order for heroes to find a good reason to bomb themselves? Whom would they recruit first: the balanced ones who will lead a quiet life, or the (more or less hidden)  tormented unsettled souls ?


No debate burdening intended, thanks for your time anyway.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2013 at 19:31
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

No one questions that faith can induce a very powerful driving force on humans, I don't think anybody would become a suicide bomber for the fun of it.

This the current most resounding act of faith indeed !

Yet I'm wondering which percentage of what motivates self killing is actual religious faith. If I were desperate about the World + my future, thinking about death, I'd find extremism a very honourable way for the ultimate act. But wouldn't I kill myself even if no extremists were offering me that exciting killing program ?

But this is not how it works. People becoming suicide bombers are often not so desperate, they do it purely on religious faith basis.
There are many people much more desperate who just stick to living, which is also a surprise to me, I often feel that if I was so desperate as some people are I would probably kill myself, but not harming anybody else, and having nothing to do with religious faith.
This is true. Suicide bombers are not desperate, they are not suicidal, they are not crazy or insane. Without a cause to die for they would live long and happy lives. There is no difference between a suicide bomber and a dead hero, it's simply a matter of choosing a side since both are making the ultimate sacrifice for their cause (which they believe to be a just and honest one because they are true believers who hold the ultimate truth). No one goes to war believing they are the bad guys.
 

"they are not crazy or insane". They can clearly make themselves look like normal balanced people, but so do quite a few psychos.  If normal  people will choose war / extremism instead of more peaceful ways, because of the "romantic" ideal war can stand for, don't heroes, on the other hand, all have something desperate in them, longing for an ordeal ?

"they do it purely on religious faith basis." Now let's imagine an Israel-like king invades its atheist neighbour, claiming "God told this land is mine/His". 
The neighbours and its allied armies are too weak to reconquer that land and find no better solution than sending war heroes bomb themselves.

Would they need to invent a religion in order for heroes to find a good reason to bomb themselves? Whom would they recruit first: the balanced ones who will lead a quiet life, or the (more or less hidden)  tormented unsettled souls ?


No debate burdening intended, thanks for your time anyway.
It looks like you are making excuses.
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2013 at 19:50
Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Originally posted by jayem jayem wrote:

Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

No one questions that faith can induce a very powerful driving force on humans, I don't think anybody would become a suicide bomber for the fun of it.

This the current most resounding act of faith indeed !

Yet I'm wondering which percentage of what motivates self killing is actual religious faith. If I were desperate about the World + my future, thinking about death, I'd find extremism a very honourable way for the ultimate act. But wouldn't I kill myself even if no extremists were offering me that exciting killing program ?

But this is not how it works. People becoming suicide bombers are often not so desperate, they do it purely on religious faith basis.
There are many people much more desperate who just stick to living, which is also a surprise to me, I often feel that if I was so desperate as some people are I would probably kill myself, but not harming anybody else, and having nothing to do with religious faith.
This is true. Suicide bombers are not desperate, they are not suicidal, they are not crazy or insane. Without a cause to die for they would live long and happy lives. There is no difference between a suicide bomber and a dead hero, it's simply a matter of choosing a side since both are making the ultimate sacrifice for their cause (which they believe to be a just and honest one because they are true believers who hold the ultimate truth). No one goes to war believing they are the bad guys.
 

"they are not crazy or insane". They can clearly make themselves look like normal balanced people, but so do quite a few psychos.  If normal  people will choose war / extremism instead of more peaceful ways, because of the "romantic" ideal war can stand for, don't heroes, on the other hand, all have something desperate in them, longing for an ordeal ?

"they do it purely on religious faith basis." Now let's imagine an Israel-like king invades its atheist neighbour, claiming "God told this land is mine/His". 
The neighbours and its allied armies are too weak to reconquer that land and find no better solution than sending war heroes bomb themselves.

Would they need to invent a religion in order for heroes to find a good reason to bomb themselves? Whom would they recruit first: the balanced ones who will lead a quiet life, or the (more or less hidden)  tormented unsettled souls ?


No debate burdening intended, thanks for your time anyway.


Erm, maybe you should consult an objective history book before you start to "imagining" things.  I don't buy your metaphore.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2013 at 20:25
"Erm, maybe you should consult an objective history book before you start to "imagining" things. " 
Even in "objective" history books you make choices about what you'll write, and my "metaphore" deserves better than this, I think.

"It looks like you are making excuses."
But we're in a grotto in the jungle, so what looks like something often turns to be something else.

It doesn't really, but nice work.


Now I can make excuses.


Edited by jayem - June 15 2013 at 06:51
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