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brainstormer 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 887 |
 Posted: June 05 2013 at 10:37 |
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You can do that without drugs and alcohol. In fact, that's the crux of most religious philosophies, at least in doctrine. |
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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humor4u1959
Forum Groupie 
Joined: April 02 2013 Status: Offline Points: 97 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 00:37 |
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What planet are YOU from? You don't think it's sad when a person with talent dies at age 27 from alcohol and/or drugs? And to think his demons, i.e., substance abuse, inspired him to write? You're so very wrong. Morrison was reading and writing profound things long before he got "messed up." Yes, he was messed up, like Amy Winehouse and countless others. Another posted a message like yours. Live every day like it's your last. That's moronic artist crap talk. Drugs don't make artists more creative, they kill them! Read John Densmore's book. He was the drummer in the Doors. Jim's drinking and onstage antics had the band at the end of their wits! Densmore once almost beat the crap out of Morrison after a concert he ruined. If that isn't sad, what is? Jeez! Some people. |
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 00:47 |
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^ Uh-huh ... If you really think that excessive passion can help you make a point, you are sadly mistaken. Quite the contrary: it's throwing us off because of its presence. And to think that you had the guts to indicate on the public forum (which is supposed to be a happy place) that we are morons.
Rethink your behavior before you start posting crap talk like that.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - June 06 2013 at 00:50 |
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humor4u1959
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 02 2013 Status: Offline Points: 97 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 00:47 |
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I agree. 'The End' is their most overrated song in my opinion. I actually think 'Touch Me' was their best. It's worth mentioning that Krieger wrote it. Morrison, in fact, wrote very little of the Doors material. After all, he didn't play an instrument. He mainly wrote lyrics. But, I think they now credit all Doors stuff as a band effort. Ray was a great keyboardist, having to play left-hand bass on everything. But, Krieger was the key composer, without a doubt. Edited by humor4u1959 - June 06 2013 at 23:06 |
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The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2013 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 4596 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 11:34 |
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I'm from the planet where people can post an opinion different from my own without being attacked and called a moron.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 11:57 |
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The End and by far.
Radical changes, different moods, dense atmospheres, interesting lyrics (A shocking example of depressive poetry taken to music), jamming. etc Everything a Proghead loves. Iván
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 12:03 |
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I think Moronic is excessive and offensive, but lets be honest, drugs don't make the artist, or you are born with the talent and develop it or simply you don't have it. I'm tired of people saying that drugs expand your mind, drugs kill man, and if it wasn't for them, we would had Jim Morrison writing lyrics for 40 or 50 years more. Jim had a great talent and wasted it. Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 06 2013 at 12:03 |
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The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2013 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 4596 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 12:33 |
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George Harrison once said that LSD didn't teach him anything he wouldn't have eventually learned through meditation. Maybe Jim just wasn't the meditating type
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 13:34 |
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Meditation, study, effort, imagination are useful, but all may be simplified to one mandatory requisite...TALENT. If you have real talent, the music and lyrics will come, with or without drugs, the difference is that with drugs, you won't be here enough to enjoy the product of that talent. Iván
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 13:47 |
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Also, Ivan, it sounds like you've tried drugs, ... have you?
Edited by Dayvenkirq - June 06 2013 at 13:49 |
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The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2013 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 4596 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 14:29 |
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The following quote is from Eric Tamm's book "Robert Fripp: From Crimson King to Crafty Master" (http://www.progressiveears.com/frippbook/ch02.htm) Robert Fripp said in 1986, "Music so wishes to be heard that it sometimes calls on unlikely characters to give it voice." Fripp was - and is - the opposite of a musician like Mozart, whose seemingly divine, God-given talent enabled him, under his father's tutelage, to be playing the harpsichord with facility by the age of five and composing sonatas and symphonies by the age of eight. "One might have a very direct, very innate and natural sense of what music is, like Hendrix, or be like me, a guitar player who began music tone deaf and with no sense of rhythm, completely out of touch with it. For Hendrix the problem was how to refine his particular capacity for expressing what he knew. For me it's how to get in touch with something that I know is there but also I'm out of touch with." I would say meditation, study, effort, and imagination are much more than just useful. Without those disciplines, the world would never have known King Crimson. |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 15:52 |
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I lived LEGALLY but heavilly drugged because the asthma I had, with adrenalin 4 o 5 times a month I was higher than anybody and destroyed my nerves, so I always had a lot of respect for drugs. But I seen close friends end like sh*t because of drugs...One of them is my age and still lives in his mother's house, but she has constructed a separate department with no access to the house, because he steals whatever he finds Two other friends from a notable family, and a degree in laws and medicine clean windows bellow a bridge in Lima. Two guys have died of OD Remember something, I'm from a Catholic Private expensive school, kids don't end like that because their parents do anything to save them, but the parents of this guys said enough and let their kids on their own. Iván
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Sagichim
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: November 29 2006 Location: Israel Status: Offline Points: 6632 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 16:23 |
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I just love the driving energies of L.A. Woman. What a jam!!
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Horizons
Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 20 2011 Location: Somewhere Else Status: Offline Points: 16952 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 21:15 |
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I'VE BEEN DOWN SO GOD DAMN LONG
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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humor4u1959
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 02 2013 Status: Offline Points: 97 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 23:02 |
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Some folks still haven't learned to read. I never called anyone a moron. Read it again if you must. I said that the idea that drugs inspire or make an artist more creative is a moronic idea. IT IS!
How many will have to die before people finally get it? Drugs kill and destroy lives. I only reacted in a zealous manner because I was shocked by the comments. I posted a sincere statement that was factual. Morrison was messed up. And I get moronic replies? Of course, I'm going to respond. Nice, smart, or semi-smart people often say moronic things. Happens all the time. Bottom is this. I was and still am a huge Doors fan. And I'll always feel it was sad that he died from his substance abuse. End of story. If I offended anyone, I'm sure you'll get over it. |
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005 Location: Olympus Mons Status: Offline Points: 15926 |
Posted: June 06 2013 at 23:53 |
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For someone to have displayed any talent that the public recognises, one must have the talent in the first place - drugs do inspire the imagination to a certain extent, but they also help certain individuals to channel this gift. In the end, drugs do run the risk of killing this talent (not to mention the individual him/herself - every human being should know their limits. Many don't. Jim didn't. Everybody has talent, one just needs to discover and recognise it, much like a meditation on a self's finer points. Meditation is for those who have patience. Jim probably didn't have any patience. I'm sure he never intended to go the way he did. But look at Elvis P - if drugs don't kill you, fatty foods will......
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brainstormer
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 887 |
Posted: June 07 2013 at 08:54 |
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Elvis did a lot of drugs. It's well-documented prescription drug abuse. About talent: all people have wonderful gifts and I agree with you. However, these are not talents in the arts. Most people will gladly tell you that they don't have any special talent in the arts, and they are grateful, knowing one can have a fulfilled life with family and friends without having to be seen as as artist. They know the suffering real artists go through. The idea that everyone can be an artist or even wants to I think has helped a little to get some of society in the mess it is today, and historically has not been what art has been about. |
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--
Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 20630 |
Posted: June 07 2013 at 10:17 |
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I went with The End and When The Music's Over....but I don't even think The Doors are proto prog like many here do.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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King Only
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 19 2013 Location: Tokyo, Japan Status: Offline Points: 554 |
Posted: June 07 2013 at 11:21 |
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I think a lot of Morrison's problems with drugs and alcohol were a manifestation of his problems with his parents. If I remember correctly, his parents strongly disapproved of his decision to join a rock band. His dad was a military guy. I remember reading somewhere that his dad often told Jim that he had no talent for music or writing. It's hard when your own family can't understand who you are and don't support your dreams.
The brother of the Door's drummer also died young, he committed suicide. I think that was also linked to problems with the parents. I believe that alcohol abuse or drug abuse are usually a symptom of stress, depression or other psychological problems. Drug abuse and alcohol abuse are a misguided form of 'self-medication'. Unfortunately they only offer a temporary and illusory escape and often damage or destroy long term users in the process. But if your source of distress and suffering is your own family then it's almost impossible to truly escape from the situation. You can escape physically, which Jim did by cutting off contact with his family. I think he lied in interviews and said that all his family members were already dead? But mentally he couldn't escape from the influence of his parents and I think a lot of his anti-authoritarian attitudes were a result of this internal struggle within himself. It's true that the other members of the band were often angry and frustrated with Jim's actions but I think at the time they didn't really understand Jim's psychological problems. The impression I got from reading John Densmore's book was that Densmore eventually forgave Morrison (although many years after Morrison died). One of the things I respect about Morrison is that he always made an effort to make sure that the other 3 members of the band were properly credited for their effort. Morrison always insisted that it was not "Jim Morrison and The Doors", it was just "The Doors". Morrison was also the one that pushed for the royalties to be split 25% each. He did have some good sides to his personality that are often overlooked because of his problems. I don't agree with some of the above comments that Krieger was the main talent... I think they all contributed 25%. I've heard the albums that the remaining members did after Jim died and there's really something missing. Jim gave the songs an edge. There is a lot of bass guitar on all The Doors albums, usually done by session musicians or friends of the band.
Edited by King Only - June 07 2013 at 13:07 |
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The.Crimson.King
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2013 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 4596 |
Posted: June 07 2013 at 11:47 |
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Ya, Jim's father was a Rear Admiral in the US Navy and they never saw eye-to-eye. I remember reading that in the 1st Doors press release the 4 guys each had to fill out a press questionnaire and under "Parents" Jim said that his were dead (which of course they weren't).
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What Doors songs are the most Prog?
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Dayvenkirq wrote: