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cstack3 
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 Posted: June 03 2013 at 00:12 |
 moshkito wrote:
Hi, I'm really concerned with the way this thread is going ... people thinking that something is Sci-Fi, just because it has a title, or a lyric that mentions some person, character or event somewhere, in a book, or tv show. I might as well tell you that I'm from Grugok and Pajkarenia and do not speak your language, and you would not believe me, so why would you believe anyone else ... ohhh yes ... consumerist society ... you see a CD, or album, or book, and that person is automatically annointed with the holy oils! THAT is NOT "sci-fi" and what it was meant to show and express, in the form that something like a handful of films had, or a few writers, like Asimov, and others made you flip ... it was so out there! More than half this stuff listed here is not "sci-fi" at all ... it's just a lyric, but you believe it? Strange! I might look at the old LPs for Hawkwind, like "In Search of Space", "Space Ritual" and "DoReMi" ... and even the stories and art work, was some kind of a culture that was sci-fi related, via Michael Moorcock, but the one album with him, that we mention is the one, where he had the least influence on the material, and was instead replaced with his voice, to make it sound more ... sci-fi ... and he comes off just like Walter Wegmuller did in TaroT for the Cosmic Couriers ... !!!!! If Sci-fi is an extra-ordinary world that we don't know, then, most of the music listed here is the worst example of sci-fi ever ... and it tells me that very few people have EVER, spent any time, actually reading science fiction, and that their idea of this is the comic book versions that appear in the movies! THAT is not "sci-fi" at all ... that's ENTERTAINMENT! Don't insult "sci-fi" and its outstanding literary tradition! Please |
Thank you for your thoughts! Set the controls for the heart of the sun....
Edited by cstack3 - June 03 2013 at 00:31
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octopus-4
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 00:33 |
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Warreï döel bradia di ?
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Tapfret
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 02:55 |
moshkito wrote:
(excerpt)
I might as well tell you that I'm from Grugok and Pajkarenia and do not speak your language, and you would not believe me.... |
If you did not speak my language I would have no idea what you were saying when you confessed to it, which I can only assume to be true since I usually have no idea what you are saying.
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MustardSea
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Joined: January 18 2013
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 04:56 |
cstack3 wrote:
moshkito wrote:
and it tells me that very few people have EVER, spent any time, actually reading science fiction, and that their idea of this is the comic book versions that appear in the movies! THAT is not "sci-fi" at all ... that's ENTERTAINMENT! Don't insult "sci-fi" and its outstanding literary tradition! Please |
Thank you for your thoughts! Set the controls for the heart of the sun....
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ahem.. Science Fiction is a literary genre and I'm quite sure that it falls under ENTERTAINMENT. I mean - don't you read it to be entertained by it? Otherwise you could just read a scientific report bang full with hard scientific facts (and if you enjoy that kind of stuff you'll also be entertained by it ergo everything is more or less part of your so-called "ENTERTAINMENT") please correct me if I'm wrong 
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octopus-4
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 06:29 |
MustardSea wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
moshkito wrote:
and it tells me that very few people have EVER, spent any time, actually reading science fiction, and that their idea of this is the comic book versions that appear in the movies! THAT is not "sci-fi" at all ... that's ENTERTAINMENT! Don't insult "sci-fi" and its outstanding literary tradition! Please |
Thank you for your thoughts! Set the controls for the heart of the sun....
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ahem.. Science Fiction is a literary genre and I'm quite sure that it falls under ENTERTAINMENT. I mean - don't you read it to be entertained by it?
Otherwise you could just read a scientific report bang full with hard scientific facts (and if you enjoy that kind of stuff you'll also be entertained by it ergo everything is more or less part of your so-called "ENTERTAINMENT")
please correct me if I'm wrong
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I think I know where Moshkito is from. I've been a huge SCi-Fi fan for years before choosing to spend my time reading of physics. For a fan is very sad when somebody thinks that Sci-Fi is just that kind of entertainment that TV and cinema usually produce. My favorite writer is still Cliff Simak and mainstream people in general never heard of him.
I think you proggers can feel the same when you mention King Crimson to somebody who opens his eyes and says "Who???". Prog is ENTRTAINMENT as well, but you can put something on while you are cooking or gardening or you can wear headphones and concentrate on each single instrument. They are different experiences. Think to Blade Runner which as movie is considered a cult (and is an excellent movie, too) but was just a mediocre short novel of an artist who has published better things. It's like if Pink Floyd have made a movie from The Gnome instead of from The Wall.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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cstack3
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 08:56 |
octopus-4 wrote:
MustardSea wrote:
cstack3 wrote:
moshkito wrote:
and it tells me that very few people have EVER, spent any time, actually reading science fiction, and that their idea of this is the comic book versions that appear in the movies! THAT is not "sci-fi" at all ... that's ENTERTAINMENT! Don't insult "sci-fi" and its outstanding literary tradition! Please |
Thank you for your thoughts! Set the controls for the heart of the sun....
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ahem.. Science Fiction is a literary genre and I'm quite sure that it falls under ENTERTAINMENT. I mean - don't you read it to be entertained by it?
Otherwise you could just read a scientific report bang full with hard scientific facts (and if you enjoy that kind of stuff you'll also be entertained by it ergo everything is more or less part of your so-called "ENTERTAINMENT")
please correct me if I'm wrong
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I think I know where Moshkito is from. I've been a huge SCi-Fi fan for years before choosing to spend my time reading of physics. For a fan is very sad when somebody thinks that Sci-Fi is just that kind of entertainment that TV and cinema usually produce. My favorite writer is still Cliff Simak and mainstream people in general never heard of him.
I think you proggers can feel the same when you mention King Crimson to somebody who opens his eyes and says "Who???". Prog is ENTRTAINMENT as well, but you can put something on while you are cooking or gardening or you can wear headphones and concentrate on each single instrument. They are different experiences. Think to Blade Runner which as movie is considered a cult (and is an excellent movie, too) but was just a mediocre short novel of an artist who has published better things. It's like if Pink Floyd have made a movie from The Gnome instead of from The Wall.
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Thank you! Given all that, I still believe that there are many, many examples of excellent progressive music that are inspired by sci fi, and even rise to the high standards of the best written/filmed sci fi. Examples:
a) "Watcher of the Skies" by Genesis - loosely inspired by the novel "Childhood's End" by Arthur C. Clarke
b) "Karn Evil 9" by ELP - an original work describing war with self-intelligent computers, years before "Terminator"
c) "Olias of Sunhillow" and "The Story of I" by Yes men Jon Anderson and Patrick Moraz - excellent music with strong, original sci-fi themes
d) "Cheepnis" by Frank Zappa, chronicling a very bad sci-fi movie "It Conquered The World"!
e) "The Mule" by Deep Purple, reputed to be inspired by the mutant character in Asimov's "Foundation and Empire."
And so forth. Admitted, some music is quite cheesy (I put Hawkwind in this category), but that is part of the genre. I actually quite enjoy the cheesy, "brass-bra & ray gun" sci fi space-operas of the 1950's! Therefore, cheesy sci-fi prog doesn't bother me (aka Rush).
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verslibre
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 09:59 |
octopus-4 wrote:
I think I know where Moshkito is from. I've been a huge SCi-Fi fan for years before choosing to spend my time reading of physics. For a fan is very sad when somebody thinks that Sci-Fi is just that kind of entertainment that TV and cinema usually produce. My favorite writer is still Cliff Simak and mainstream people in general never heard of him. |
Clifford, and many others. Harlan Ellison is the god of speculative fiction (and his nonfiction is equally stellar) and he should absolutely be a household name, but I could go up to any random person in a bookstore and drop his name and get looked at like I just pissed on their shoes. 
octopus-4 wrote:
I think you proggers can feel the same when you mention King Crimson to somebody who opens his eyes and says "Who???". Prog is ENTRTAINMENT as well, but you can put something on while you are cooking or gardening or you can wear headphones and concentrate on each single instrument. They are different experiences.Think to Blade Runner which as movie is considered a cult (and is an excellent movie, too) but was just a mediocre short novel of an artist who has published better things. It's like if Pink Floyd have made a movie from The Gnome instead of from The Wall. |
I see your point, though I don't think I'd call anything by PKD "mediocre." The movie didn't cover everything in the book, either. The movie is one of my favorite films (with one of the best musical scores ever), of course.
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Knobby
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 10:01 |
Rush SHOULD bother everyone.
....
CMU -space cabaret
Bell Air - cogs
Hillage - ufo over Paris
PFS - all backed up
2060 - reflection of the future
YES-then
Hammill-future now
Here are some psych etc ones:
Aorta - shape of things to come (also Max (summat) & the Troopers???)
Don Thompson - jupiter
Magik Dayze - ufo calling, future roads
Marino - Juggernaut
Donovan - intergalactic laxative
Kim Fowley - stranger from the sky
Tables-spaceman
Golden Earring -silver ships
Byrds - cta
..............................
The best example was already given: Julian Savarin.
Why?
Because ,foremost he was a scifi (and spy-adventure) novelist.
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octopus-4
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 10:07 |
verslibre wrote:
octopus-4 wrote:
I think I know where Moshkito is from. I've been a huge SCi-Fi fan for years before choosing to spend my time reading of physics. For a fan is very sad when somebody thinks that Sci-Fi is just that kind of entertainment that TV and cinema usually produce. My favorite writer is still Cliff Simak and mainstream people in general never heard of him. |
Clifford, and many others. Harlan Ellison is the god of speculative fiction (and his nonfiction is equally stellar) and he should absolutely be a household name, but I could go up to any random person in a bookstore and drop his name and get looked at like I just pissed on their shoes.
octopus-4 wrote:
I think you proggers can feel the same when you mention King Crimson to somebody who opens his eyes and says "Who???". Prog is ENTRTAINMENT as well, but you can put something on while you are cooking or gardening or you can wear headphones and concentrate on each single instrument. They are different experiences.Think to Blade Runner which as movie is considered a cult (and is an excellent movie, too) but was just a mediocre short novel of an artist who has published better things. It's like if Pink Floyd have made a movie from The Gnome instead of from The Wall. |
I see your point, though I don't think I'd call anything by PKD "mediocre." The movie didn't cover everything in the book, either. The movie is one of my favorite films (with one of the best musical scores ever), of course. |
Sorry, I have used the wrong words. I meant mediocre respect to Dick's best works. What I was wishing to say is that what is considered (and for me is) a great movie comes from a thing which is not his best. It's true that it contains all the most important elements of Dick's literature and the Director's cut version of the movie with the final unicorn makes more justice to it. I have probably chosen a bad example.
After 2001 Space Odyssey, Blade Runner is my favorite SciFi movie. I could have used other examples from Dick like the two versions of Total Recall or Screamers (not too bad this one).
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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octopus-4
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 10:13 |
I remember a novel by John Varley (or John Shirley maybe) in which something was happening at a concert of Blue Oyster Cult. Sci-Fi Quoting Prog(related) instead of vice versa.
I don't remember the title of that novel, it was about a "living city" and was published around the end of the 80s.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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MustardSea
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 11:53 |
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..also, to add something on-topic:
- Barefoot In The Head by Astra
inspired by the eponymous book by the great Brian Aldiss!
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MustardSea
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 11:56 |
octopus-4 wrote:
I remember a novel by John Varley (or John Shirley maybe) in which something was happening at a concert of Blue Oyster Cult. Sci-Fi Quoting Prog(related) instead of vice versa.
I don't remember the title of that novel, it was about a "living city" and was published around the end of the 80s. |
wasn't that a trilogy set on a kind of living, hollow world around Saturn or Titan? I think the first one was even called "Titan" if I'm not wrong but it's been a while since I've read it so I could be completely wrong
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cstack3
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 14:03 |
Maybe it is only distantly prog related, but "Wooden Ships" by Crosby Stills & Nash is an excellent song, with very apocalyptic vision and haunting lyrics!
Somewhat in the spirit of Harlan Ellison's "Dangerous Visions," a classic!
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moshkito
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 14:31 |
Tapfret wrote:
moshkito wrote:
(excerpt)
I might as well tell you that I'm from Grugok and Pajkarenia and do not speak your language, and you would not believe me.... |
If you did not speak my language I would have no idea what you were saying when you confessed to it, which I can only assume to be true since I usually have no idea what you are saying.
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The real problem in your example is not the language ... it is your willingness to share and appreciate! And learn! WE'RE ALL BOZOS ON THIS BUS ... with one difference ... you don't know it! What I try to say can be determined real easy by any of you ... close your eyes and hear someone say it ... you'll know by the colors what it all means ... I am not very good at twisting words at all, otherwise! The only issue, for some folks here, is that I hold rock music, in the same light as I do the history of art, the history of literature and the history of music, and that throws a lot of people way out for a loop, because of the references, which a few people here don't like ... and they spend their time trolling and trashing the thread ... and it is NOT any kind of comment on anyone, except the GREAT desire of mine to lift the spirit of the music into a better and more respected level ... now tell me ... what is so hard about understanding that? Unless you think it's crap, anyway! Right?
Edited by moshkito - June 03 2013 at 14:52
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 14:53 |
Knobby wrote:
Rush SHOULD bother everyone.
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It does me! OVER RATED! Nice, and all that ... but OVER RATED! I'm also getting over Marillion ... the stuff that was nice, had good lyrics that made sense, are now ... meagher and kinda lost their sense and sensibility!
Edited by moshkito - June 03 2013 at 14:58
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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richardh
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 15:37 |
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Tend to think that Rush were better when they left the sc-fi thing alone. Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures were a spectacular reinvention of their sound and style more so than any other band I can think of. Rush were never as self consciously embedded in the whole seventies prog thing as other more symphonic styled bands were. They just rode it while it suited them imo.
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infocat
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Posted: June 03 2013 at 23:03 |
Knobby wrote:
Rush SHOULD bother everyone. |
Don't you worry your Canadian citizenship will be revoked?
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--
Frank Swarbrick
Belief is not Truth.
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Knobby
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Posted: June 04 2013 at 16:21 |
It is discomfiting for a Prog Masterman to admit it, but I have never heard the concept lp "Ark 2" by Flaming Youth.
I have some vague feeling that its not half as bad as most everyone says it is. I mean, for crikeys, its got Philsers on drums!
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cstack3
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Posted: June 04 2013 at 20:16 |
...on the other hand, I cannot think of a single Jethro Tull song that is even remotely sci-fi! Oh well, what do we expect from a band that adopted its name from the inventor of the seed-drill?
My vote for "worst" Sci-Fi prog (or prog related) is probably the soundtrack to the movie "Flash Gordon" by Queen.
Awful music for a bloody horrible film!
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AreYouHuman
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Posted: June 04 2013 at 20:45 |
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The closest to SF I can think of for Tull is Wond'ring Again, from Living in the Past, with its imagery of a world falling apart at the seams.
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