"Freedom" thread or something

^The not-so-invisible hand of the US government is, thankfully, the leveling factor that ensures a fair outcome making sure the rich get way richer, the very poor at least get some help, and everybody else from the plain poor to the almost wealthy get screwed up and squeezed till extinction. So one day we will only have super rich and ultra poor. And the average income statistics thus will look tremendously good.

I want to emphasize the "US" part of "US government". For some reason (possible cultural) government doesn't seem to "level" it like that in Europe or other places. At the same time, other governments are even worse in that they only make the miserable class get bigger.

The T wrote: ^The not-so-invisible hand of the US government is, thankfully, the leveling factor that ensures a fair outcome making sure the rich get way richer, the very poor at least get some help, and everybody else from the plain poor to the almost wealthy get screwed up and squeezed till extinction. So one day we will only have super rich and ultra poor. And the average income statistics thus will look tremendously good.

yeah, those damn outliers really skew the average. 

The T wrote: Some libertarians tend to defend Walmart and sing its praises always. Some people in the left hate Walmart and seem to blame it for all that is wrong in the US. I don't like Walmart as a company and I dislike everything about them as an employer. But the way this country is both customers and workers in general are better off with Walmart existing.

Well, there in lies the rub.  It's not that simple when we are barraged by ads every waking moment.  Everything, even air, has been branded, comodified and marketed not to help us, but to make us buy it.  To think the market cares anything about what a person needs health or happiness wise is naive.  No?

The T wrote: Libertarianism wouldn't object to people buying crap because the main idea is "live and let live". Individuals, on the other hand, can well comment as they please. I also find it sad and empty to lead a life where money and stuff are all one has to fill the void. And I see it a lot around me. But I try not to be that way. And that's all I can do about that. And maybe teach my children if I ever have them to care about family and people and let money and sh*t be what they are: a means, and what you obtain with those means.

The T wrote: ^I used to be all about no religion and atheism and all of that and now I see with joy people who believe and are happy believing. If faith is a blessing, for those for whom it is, let it be one.

When comparisons are made between drugs and religion I just realize the discussion might lead nowehere. For one thing, religious sometimes make some people be more productive and really content in life. Quite the opposite of drugs. Even opiates.
The Marxian (if it was really him) confusion of opium and religion is old and always effective in some people. Even in my activist(kind of)atheist times I found it somewhat suspicious.
I honestly think man has and will always have the desire to believe in something. Whether it is science or god or God or whomever.

I always found it interesting that so many religious folk were pro lesser government.
Now I assume that, for whatever reason, it's what they have been told so went with it. But yeah many are very anti government, but dedicated to their religious hierarchy and God, who is perhaps the ultimate power.

I later learned about theoism (I think?) but basically that the ultimate purpose of religion is to submit to God. Give up as much of yourself as you can to the higher power....made me wonder if religion is often opposed to government (in theory) because religion wants people to submit to their power, and government was/is a rival.
And a friend of mine recently converted to Christianity and while he's borderline delusionally happy, kind of like he's on drugs (opiate anyone??) God and Christ are every other word he says. Has given up most things he cared about, and even was proud of abandoning pride, individuality, his wavering thoughts....all to god. How it may supress his urges, wants etc and that he fully believes God DOES intervene in small issues with our lives. I'm like wow, the truest state of faith is very communistic

Not to take a Rand like belief but I really don't want to submit my humanity to ANY power, government or a church/higher power.


My 2 cents, I kind of hate religious talk these days (its all personal anyway) so I'll just leave that there.


Edited by JJLehto - April 14 2013 at 12:35

King of Loss wrote: The T wrote: When comparisons are made between drugs and religion I just realize the discussion might lead nowehere. For one thing, religious sometimes make some people be more productive and really content in life. Quite the opposite of drugs. Even opiates. The Marxian (if it was really him) confusion of opium and religion is old and always effective in some people. Even in my activist(kind of)atheist times I found it somewhat suspicious. I honestly think man has and will always have the desire to believe in something. Whether it is science or god or God or whomever. I agree, but Marxists believe in something like religion, but it's not really religion. I think the main criticism of Marx was towards the oppressive nature of religion, just like the observations in the oppressive nature of most man-made things.

Edited by zumacraig - April 14 2013 at 12:58