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The New Neal Morse Appreciation Thread

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freyacat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freyacat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2013 at 13:22
When I discovered Neal Morse and Spock's Beard spearheading a Progressive Rock resurrection in the 90's, I was overjoyed.  I heard passionate, brilliant composion and playing from this man, and attention to narrative and meaning in his lyrics.
Sadly, however, he fell victim to the Christian Music Heresy.  A few musicians have fallen prey to this thinking, and it usually destroys their music.
 
The idea is that you can't be making music that pleases God, or music that lives out your faith, unless the lyrics are quoting scripture or doctrine.
 
It is ironic that his Transatlantic band-mate, Roine Stolt, makes much more creative music about Jesus, but most people would never detect it, because Roine's lyrics are so poetic and mystical.
 
Anyway, I found much of "Snow" to be brilliant, walking right up to that line between making rock music and evangelism, but once Neal Morse decided to label himself a "Christian Musician," he lost me.
 
Of particular annoyance to me is the Sola Scriptura album, which recasts Martin Luther, a brilliant liberal thinker and revolutionary, into an evangelical Christian poster boy.  Along the way, Neal also manages to perpetuate some anti-Catholic slander.
 
I only hope that Transatlantic does not permit Neal Morse to hijack their efforts for his theological agenda any more.  "The Whirlwind" was severely hampered by its "Left Behind" lyrical themes.  Not good music, or good Christianity, even. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlexDOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 13 2013 at 18:00
Originally posted by freyacat freyacat wrote:

When I discovered Neal Morse and Spock's Beard spearheading a Progressive Rock resurrection in the 90's, I was overjoyed.  I heard passionate, brilliant composion and playing from this man, and attention to narrative and meaning in his lyrics.
Sadly, however, he fell victim to the Christian Music Heresy.  A few musicians have fallen prey to this thinking, and it usually destroys their music.
 
The idea is that you can't be making music that pleases God, or music that lives out your faith, unless the lyrics are quoting scripture or doctrine.
 
It is ironic that his Transatlantic band-mate, Roine Stolt, makes much more creative music about Jesus, but most people would never detect it, because Roine's lyrics are so poetic and mystical.
 
Anyway, I found much of "Snow" to be brilliant, walking right up to that line between making rock music and evangelism, but once Neal Morse decided to label himself a "Christian Musician," he lost me.
 
Of particular annoyance to me is the Sola Scriptura album, which recasts Martin Luther, a brilliant liberal thinker and revolutionary, into an evangelical Christian poster boy.  Along the way, Neal also manages to perpetuate some anti-Catholic slander.
 
I only hope that Transatlantic does not permit Neal Morse to hijack their efforts for his theological agenda any more.  "The Whirlwind" was severely hampered by its "Left Behind" lyrical themes.  Not good music, or good Christianity, even. 

Not much appreciation for Neal on a Neal Morse appreciation thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Biff Tannen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2013 at 13:40
freyacat, it's true that Neal's spiritual lyrics are way more obvious than Roine's are, but I still think they are not as overtly blatant as many do.  But that's just me. 

Also, out of curiosity, what is the anti-Catholic slander on Sola Scriptura that you spoke of?? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 09 2013 at 17:27
I just deleted a response!

I'll say for now is that Roine is more of a universalist deist rather than a Christian.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlexDOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2013 at 10:49
[QUOTE=Biff Tannen]freyacat, it's true that Neal's spiritual lyrics are way more obvious than Roine's are, but I still think they are not as overtly blatant as many do.  But that's just me. 

Neal's lyrics aren't so much spiritual, there are more blatant Christian-themed. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2013 at 15:48
Neal's lyrics are delusional and infantile. Although it seems he's unware, his crusade is quit sinister and takes absolutely no responsibility for it's genocidal end game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlexDOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2013 at 17:13
Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

Neal's lyrics are delusional and infantile. Although it seems he's unware, his crusade is quit sinister and takes absolutely no responsibility for it's genocidal end game.

This is an appreciation thread not bashing thread. PUH-LEASE!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brainstormer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 10 2013 at 17:37
I mentioned a year or two ago that I would be listening more to Morse, and I am appreciating
him in that he sees music as an avenue for ministry, as most of the great composers have.
I have to say that I'm a Christian but I never picked up getting ministered that much by Neal Morse.
It's not that I think he's a bad representative, but I guess I'm a first wave progressive rocker, 
and a lot of the 90's bands are lost on me.  I started liking music just for music sake 
pretty much into my late teens, as Fripp and co. were going that
direction also, it seemed a "Prog" enough thing to do.  Ronnie Martin's Joy Electric, esp. the
Melody album would be a good example of "progressive Christian music," as is the first
three King's X albums.  I like Rick Wakeman's Christian outings also.  I wish he would do
more of that kind of thing.  The CD by a band called "Wisdom" is the best Christian progressive
rock I've heard to date.   The album is called Face to Face.



Edited by brainstormer - April 10 2013 at 17:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 01:51
There is too much prog that lacks balls for me. Morse doesn't lack any. His passion and drive is very evident and helps makes the music so exciting. I also like the fact that he works mainly with a 3 peice format in the studio. That gives him plenty of space in the music. Its easy to forget that Neal is one of the best keyboard players in modern prog and could quite easily be viewed as a modern day Keith Emerson.

btw I wish certain people would respect the thread. Somewhat ironic that Zumacraig is accusing Neal of being 'infantile'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brainstormer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 08:20
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

There is too much prog that lacks balls for me. Morse doesn't lack any. His passion and drive is very evident and helps makes the music so exciting. I also like the fact that he works mainly with a 3 peice format in the studio. That gives him plenty of space in the music. Its easy to forget that Neal is one of the best keyboard players in modern prog and could quite easily be viewed as a modern day Keith Emerson.

Well, I wanted to edit what I said down a bit....it was early in the morning.....I am not saying Morse sounds
band or I won't listen to him in the future, but you did say he was a modern day Keith Emerson, which
to me is saying quite a certain thing. 

When one calls for an appreciation thread, that at allows us who would never consider the artist
after a few listens to give our opinion of him.  We are giving you the honor of appreciating an artist again,
reconsidering him, and at least allow you to defend the artist.  So, any criticism that is done in a spirit of
furthering a true discussion of music should still be seen in the spirit of the thread.

IMHO, I have never heard Neal Morse create one original use of modes or harmony.  He can play fast, but I have never
heard him write anything in an music theory innovation way, that Emerson has clearly proven himself to have done.  
I would not say that Morse is a modern day Keith Emerson.  I have to admit I haven't heard all Morse's
material, but I have listened to about an hour of it and I only come back to it time to time because of the
lyrics and spirit it's written in.  I've talked about this before.  I think the first wave of progressive rockers seem to have more of a well-rounded education, and tend to appreciate avant-garde or deep classical easier.  Witness the obscure composers Emerson sometime's quotes from.  The second wave of progressive rock seems to not have
a deep education in many areas and so much of their music seems kind of blues scale focused, or
stays in the modes and harmonies already explored by the first wave of prog rock.



Edited by brainstormer - April 11 2013 at 12:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aussie-Byrd-Brother Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 08:42
Listened to `Momentum' twice today, just reaffirms to me that Morse is simply one of the best (if not the best) modern prog artists when it comes to placing just as much emphasis on superb hooks, harmonies and catchy vocal sections as super-prog workouts and extended instrumental flashiness. That album has so much uptempo energy!

`Freak' still doens't do much for me though lol!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AEProgman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 09:27
Originally posted by Aussie-Byrd-Brother Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:

`Freak' still doens't do much for me though lol!
Freak was a head scratcher for me as well.  Sort of a Beatles Eleanor Rigby sound to it.
 
His first 3 solo albums, Testimony, One, and ? blew me away.  His hooks always grab me like a "Fish". Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlexDOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 11 2013 at 09:37
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

There is too much prog that lacks balls for me. Morse doesn't lack any. His passion and drive is very evident and helps makes the music so exciting. I also like the fact that he works mainly with a 3 peice format in the studio. That gives him plenty of space in the music. Its easy to forget that Neal is one of the best keyboard players in modern prog and could quite easily be viewed as a modern day Keith Emerson.


So so so true. I am in total agreement
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 01:47
Originally posted by brainstormer brainstormer wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

There is too much prog that lacks balls for me. Morse doesn't lack any. His passion and drive is very evident and helps makes the music so exciting. I also like the fact that he works mainly with a 3 peice format in the studio. That gives him plenty of space in the music. Its easy to forget that Neal is one of the best keyboard players in modern prog and could quite easily be viewed as a modern day Keith Emerson.

Well, I wanted to edit what I said down a bit....it was early in the morning.....I am not saying Morse sounds
band or I won't listen to him in the future, but you did say he was a modern day Keith Emerson, which
to me is saying quite a certain thing. 

When one calls for an appreciation thread, that at allows us who would never consider the artist
after a few listens to give our opinion of him.  We are giving you the honor of appreciating an artist again,
reconsidering him, and at least allow you to defend the artist.  So, any criticism that is done in a spirit of
furthering a true discussion of music should still be seen in the spirit of the thread.

IMHO, I have never heard Neal Morse create one original use of modes or harmony.  He can play fast, but I have never
heard him write anything in an music theory innovation way, that Emerson has clearly proven himself to have done.  
I would not say that Morse is a modern day Keith Emerson.  I have to admit I haven't heard all Morse's
material, but I have listened to about an hour of it and I only come back to it time to time because of the
lyrics and spirit it's written in.  I've talked about this before.  I think the first wave of progressive rockers seem to have more of a well-rounded education, and tend to appreciate avant-garde or deep classical easier.  Witness the obscure composers Emerson sometime's quotes from.  The second wave of progressive rock seems to not have
a deep education in many areas and so much of their music seems kind of blues scale focused, or
stays in the modes and harmonies already explored by the first wave of prog rock.


I do think though that these type of threads are for fans and you are clearly not. To be honest I hadn't read your earlier post and was just picking up on Zumacraig's comment. He has done this before and he adds nothing of intererest. You on the other hand are obviously a very intelligent poster with an interesting musical outlook. Personally I don't get too hung up on comparing modern artists with the classic prog artists. It was extremely lazy of me to compare Morse with Emerson.  I'm a big ELP fan and Keith is my hero so what I was really doing was giving some support to Neal who I like very much for reasons I explained. The comparison I made was just on his technical ability which is on a level with Emerson imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morsenator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 02:44
Originally posted by AlexDOM AlexDOM wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

There is too much prog that lacks balls for me. Morse doesn't lack any. His passion and drive is very evident and helps makes the music so exciting. I also like the fact that he works mainly with a 3 peice format in the studio. That gives him plenty of space in the music. Its easy to forget that Neal is one of the best keyboard players in modern prog and could quite easily be viewed as a modern day Keith Emerson.


So so so true. I am in total agreement


Indeed. Neal is pretty much the most inspirational musician I am aware of. His albums (solo, TA, SB, even some of the worship stuff) hook me up from the first moments I hear them and lead to journeys of various emotions, wonders and landscapes of thoughts. They have had much healing and positive effect in my life. I can see some of the criticism legitimate (his often repeating concepts, for example), but he rarely leaves anyone cold at least. It is rare today to find a musician whose focus is in the spirit of the music and connecting with people through it and not in technicality, hipsterness, sales, overblown criticism of things etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote infandous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 08:50
I have been critical of his lyrics (and not just because they are Christian), but his music is generally fabulous.  No, it's not groundbreaking and he certainly has his "patented prog rock formula" (which I happen to love), but I agree with the other posters that his music is filled with emotion and "feel".  He's a very genuine artist who puts all he's got into everything he does, something I appreciate very much, even if I don't always share the sentiments of the lyrics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 14:38
Originally posted by infandous infandous wrote:

I have been critical of his lyrics (and not just because they are Christian), but his music is generally fabulous.  No, it's not groundbreaking and he certainly has his "patented prog rock formula" (which I happen to love), but I agree with the other posters that his music is filled with emotion and "feel".  He's a very genuine artist who puts all he's got into everything he does, something I appreciate very much, even if I don't always share the sentiments of the lyrics.

In essence what I wanted to say but much better Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 14:40
Originally posted by Morsenator Morsenator wrote:

Originally posted by AlexDOM AlexDOM wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

There is too much prog that lacks balls for me. Morse doesn't lack any. His passion and drive is very evident and helps makes the music so exciting. I also like the fact that he works mainly with a 3 peice format in the studio. That gives him plenty of space in the music. Its easy to forget that Neal is one of the best keyboard players in modern prog and could quite easily be viewed as a modern day Keith Emerson.


So so so true. I am in total agreement


Indeed. Neal is pretty much the most inspirational musician I am aware of. His albums (solo, TA, SB, even some of the worship stuff) hook me up from the first moments I hear them and lead to journeys of various emotions, wonders and landscapes of thoughts. They have had much healing and positive effect in my life. I can see some of the criticism legitimate (his often repeating concepts, for example), but he rarely leaves anyone cold at least. It is rare today to find a musician whose focus is in the spirit of the music and connecting with people through it and not in technicality, hipsterness, sales, overblown criticism of things etc.

great to hear he has had such a positive affect on your life and also that last comment is spot onCool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 15:52
A Morse bashing thread would probably get deleted.  So here we are.  I guess I shouldn't care about what Morse's lyrics are.  I used to be more of a 'live and let live' kind of person.  However, I can't keep quiet when delusion prevails in art, discussion etc.  Dismissing my post as uninteresting and unintelligent is predictable.  I made controversial comments.  If that's not interesting, then what is?  Talking about how passionate Neal is?  Passionately delusional.  He's sticking with the fundamentalism because he makes money off of it.  For many, it doesn't hold up for long because reality is hard to ignore.  Just take a minute and take Neal's assertions about his daughter to their logical conclusion.  Hint, god saved only his kid that day?  What about all the rest of the kids who died that day?  That is where I start not from the assumption that the god of the bible is real and nice.  He's quite an unstable god in the great books.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlexDOM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 12 2013 at 16:45
Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

A Morse bashing thread would probably get deleted.  So here we are.  I guess I shouldn't care about what Morse's lyrics are.  I used to be more of a 'live and let live' kind of person.  However, I can't keep quiet when delusion prevails in art, discussion etc.  Dismissing my post as uninteresting and unintelligent is predictable.  I made controversial comments.  If that's not interesting, then what is?  Talking about how passionate Neal is?  Passionately delusional.  He's sticking with the fundamentalism because he makes money off of it.  For many, it doesn't hold up for long because reality is hard to ignore.  Just take a minute and take Neal's assertions about his daughter to their logical conclusion.  Hint, god saved only his kid that day?  What about all the rest of the kids who died that day?  That is where I start not from the assumption that the god of the bible is real and nice.  He's quite an unstable god in the great books.

I sense a lot of bitterness, I just want to say that it's ok. There are things that I still do not understand. But hey if a miracle happened would you not expect someone to be passionate about the source, which to Neal is Jesus.  
And I think controversial comments are interesting, I've made them on the gay marriage thread based on my Biblical convictions, and literally hell was raised and people started criticizing me, my faith, the Bible, God, etc. (which I'm not surprised by at all).

I could make the same claim that people who do not follow Christ are passionately delusional. Actually I'll change that. They are, but I could be in the very same boat. We either accept or reject Jesus Christ. And Mr. Morse accepted Him, and you can tell that is what he is passionate about. 

I feel like most artists are passionately delusional. I love love Opeth, but massively disagree on what they believe. I believe they are under a passionate delusion but they still make sick music.
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