Flower Kings Appreciation Thread

I just like how there are essentially 2 different versions of GoD. I remember there is also improv in the beginning and a longer keyboard solo.

Dennis, I think I forgot to mention that I really don't care for the album, Close To The Edge.  The live versions on Yessongs are far superior.  However, the song Close To The Edge, was never my favorite, with many shorter (and longer) songs being ahead of it in the Yes catalog.  It's okay, but the excitement and crazy musicianship of the first few minutes is never equaled (not even close), so the whole rest of the song seems like an anti-climax to me.  Keep in mind this is after many years of hearing it many, many times in various live and studio forms.

As to GOD live, I think they do a great job.  I saw it performed live twice, and both performances were absolutely magnificent.  I do actually agree to some extent about the Meet The Flower Kings version though.........but all the versions on there seem to lack the live feel that I got from actual live performances.  As I've stated in the past, that DVD was a fairly contrived affair, that involved about 20 people in the "audience" and was filmed over a 6-8 hour period, with the band playing songs over a few times to get it "just right".  Then later, some overdubs were made, including ALL of Hasse's vocals (he had the flu the day of filming).  So, needless to day, it's not a good representation of the Flower Kings live.  Though I have to say that the set list is nearly perfect for me, and I think the final result is quite enjoyable, if not actually a good representation of the band live.

As to the show you saw...........during the Unfold tour they did go father out with the improv's.  Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.  Sounds like you saw one of the times it didn't.  Their improv's on later tours seem much more controlled and deliberate, with possibly more of a basic idea to improv over (like Blade Of Cain or Hudson River Siren's Call).


Edited by infandous - April 08 2013 at 13:24

Biff Tannen wrote: dennismoore wrote:     The clear problem is the song is too long winded to begin with and that it can't be played live without putting the audience to sleep.  If you write/produce music you should be able to reproduce it faithfully life.   I disagree.   Like Neil Peart once said, a great studio song does not always equal a great live song.  Conversely, I've heard my fair share of songs over the years that weren't that great in the studio, but they sprang to life in a live setting. It is not always an exact science.   But getting back to being able to reproduce it faithfully live, that is hogwash, IMO.  The advantage of being in the studio is you are able to take advantage of your surroundings and do all kinds of things that you cannot do live (whether that be overdubs, layered harmonies ala Queen, reverb/echo, etc.).  I have ZERO problem with bands when they produce studio music that can be difficult to perform live the same way.

Exactly.  The Flower Kings are a perfect example, starting out as they did as essentially a Stolt solo project, of a band that utilizes the studio fully.  The first time I saw them live, I was hoping to hear perfectly recreated versions of their studio material.  After I quickly realized this was not really going to happen, I came to the realization that that was not such a bad thing (though some songs, like The Truth Will Set You Free, were faithfully recreated sounding almost identical to the studio version).  The Flower Kings really are a different beast live.  This can sometimes yield less than stellar performances, but I think it's worth it for the times when they really smoke.



Edited by infandous - April 08 2013 at 14:17

Been listening to Whirlwind. It's way too long. I love the first track and some of the jazzy instrumental stuff. Also, the production is dry and warm. I'm finished with Morse's cliche metaphors for 'accept Jesus or else'...I guess you get blown away by the wind.

I really want to like this. Maybe I will. I'm still really curious about the new album and Bridge is a perfect album.

zumacraig wrote: Been listening to Whirlwind. It's way too long. I love the first track and some of the jazzy instrumental stuff. Also, the production is dry and warm. I'm finished with Morse's cliche metaphors for 'accept Jesus or else'...I guess you get blown away by the wind. I really want to like this. Maybe I will. I'm still really curious about the new album and Bridge is a perfect album.

" Bridge is a perfect album"...  Are you saying you think Bridge Across Forever was perfect?  I'm not sure I understand you.

Strangely - I listened to "The whirlwind" last week as well - it is very long and obviously I get seriously pissed off with the lyrical content, especially the "Certainty" with which the deluded Morse, dismisses the FACT of evolution for the unrelenting lies and simplistic, childish imagery of the mythical christian heaven......thus - GOD (although sort of based on christain/relegious themes) is far superior as are the shorter TA epics...

dennismoore wrote: infandous wrote: Dennis, I think I forgot to mention that I really don't care for the album, Close To The Edge.  The live versions on Yessongs are far superior.  However, the song Close To The Edge, was never my favorite, with many shorter (and longer) songs being ahead of it in the Yes catalog.  It's okay, but the excitement and crazy musicianship of the first few minutes is never equaled (not even close), so the whole rest of the song seems like an anti-climax to me.  Keep in mind this is after many years of hearing it many, many times in various live and studio forms. As to GOD live, I think they do a great job.  I saw it performed live twice, and both performances were absolutely magnificent.  I do actually agree to some extent about the Meet The Flower Kings version though.........but all the versions on there seem to lack the live feel that I got from actual live performances.  As I've stated in the past, that DVD was a fairly contrived affair, that involved about 20 people in the "audience" and was filmed over a 6-8 hour period, with the band playing songs over a few times to get it "just right".  Then later, some overdubs were made, including ALL of Hasse's vocals (he had the flu the day of filming).  So, needless to day, it's not a good representation of the Flower Kings live.  Though I have to say that the set list is nearly perfect for me, and I think the final result is quite enjoyable, if not actually a good representation of the band live. As to the show you saw...........during the Unfold tour they did go father out with the improv's.  Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.  Sounds like you saw one of the times it didn't.  Their improv's on later tours seem much more controlled and deliberate, with possibly more of a basic idea to improv over (like Blade Of Cain or Hudson River Siren's Call). Hmm, we covered CTTE a while back and I agreed with you that I also thought the Yessongs version beats the crap out of it.  For Siberian...& And You & I as well. but that is a different point.  when you judge CTTE for its time and what other bands were doing, it is awe-inspiring. Prior, other long songs were just ramblings. Kinda like In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida.... As far as the fast/rough part at the beginning of CTTE, it is pure musical chaos but with guitar work so precise.  What a stunning combination.  Think Robert Fripp but actually with some "soul"..  More when I have time....

Well, you do have a point there, about the time.  However, there were a number of much better (IMO) epics released before, or at the same time, as that one.  Supper's Ready (1972) and A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers (1971) come to mind.  Not to mention the finest epic of 1972, Thick As A Brick.  Come to think of it, 1972 was a good year for epics!

Honestly, I much prefer ALL the tracks on Topographic Oceans to Close To The Edge.  I know, call me crazy.  I also prefer Gates Of Delirium to all other Yes epics (hmm......what is it about epics with the initials G.O.D. that makes them so monumentally good for me?  )

I don't know if I said it, but I did love Close To the Edge for the first year or so I was familiar with it.  Over the years though, I just find it pales compared to other epics and other Yes songs.

As to your Fripp comment.........Fripp proved he had soul on the early records, with his writing if not his playing.  He seemed to decide to trade it in for cold technicality later on though.  Thanks to John Wetton, there was plenty of soul on the albums he took part in as well (and the song writing still had plenty of soul on most tracks).  From Discipline on though, I agree with you about the lack of soul where Fripp is concerned.




Edited by infandous - April 09 2013 at 08:53

Dennis,
Fripp has no soul! Blasphemer!
I like Larks. I really need to make an effort to get into their other stuff.

CTTE-chaos that is pleasing and rocking! Genius!

Also, if anyone gives a sh*t I've noticed I have this pattern of getting on here saying I'm disappointed in an album only to come back and recant. So I'm warming up to whirlwind. There is a lot of padding. For example, wind blew them all away could've ended with roine's solo. His stuff is great, btw. Rose colored glasses and dance in eternal glory have horrible lyrics. The rest is pretty fun. I may dump this into audacity and make an edit.

zumacraig wrote: Dennis, Fripp has no soul! Blasphemer! I like Larks. I really need to make an effort to get into their other stuff. CTTE-chaos that is pleasing and rocking! Genius! Also, if anyone gives a sh*t I've noticed I have this pattern of getting on here saying I'm disappointed in an album only to come back and recant. So I'm warming up to whirlwind. There is a lot of padding. For example, wind blew them all away could've ended with roine's solo. His stuff is great, btw. Rose colored glasses and dance in eternal glory have horrible lyrics. The rest is pretty fun. I may dump this into audacity and make an edit.

Biff Tannen wrote: In the studio, Garden of Dreams is perfect as is, but I can see why they edited it down when played live.   I agree that the last song in The Whirlwind suite does feel a bit overdone, with all of the reprises, but that is Neal Morse for ya.  I love Neal's music, but he goes a bit overboard with the reprises more often than not (see: the last half of Disc 2 of Snow), so it is one of those little things I can deal with since his music is always so enjoyable.