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Joined: October 12 2012
Location: Squonk
Status: Offline
Points: 232
Posted: March 31 2013 at 01:02
As far as Rush goes.. well, bands can do what they want. But I can buy or not buy their records or concert tickets. Signals signaled the end of Rush for me. It was the first Rush album I bought that I was disappointed with. I bought one more "Grace" and that didn't move me much either. It was more experimental and artsy, but lacked the stellar playing and solos and complexity they were giving us in the past. Those records were a long way from Hemispheres or A Farewell to Kings. It was going in the wrong direction for me.
It was not just Rush, but Camel started making crap records, and so did Gentle Giant.
The only prog band that kept my interest in the 80's was Crimson. While many didn't like the Red, Yellow and Blue albums... there really was some great playing on there... and they created a sound that was totally unique.
The 90's came and then we got Spocks and Flower Kings and a couple of the Swedish bands trying to revive the genre, but it was too derivative of the 70's bands. Now it's mostly Prog metal which to me is a bore. My wife fell asleep literally at the DT concert. That stuff is just silly showboating. Hard for me to understand why people go crazy over them.
I still think there is a lot of room to explore and creative original ideas without having to dumb oneself down to digital recording.
Joined: October 12 2012
Location: Squonk
Status: Offline
Points: 232
Posted: September 30 2013 at 00:48
Computers changed the game, and that is way classic prog faded. Before computers entered the recording studios, bands had to play the stuff.. even if they were punching tracks.. still had to do it. Now with technology, Snoop Dog is now Snoop Lion the Reggae star.
You used to have to earn your way into Prog, now it's just copy and paste your way into it.
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: September 30 2013 at 01:28
Surrealist wrote:
Computers changed the game, and that is way classic prog faded. Before computers entered the recording studios, bands had to play the stuff.. even if they were punching tracks.. still had to do it. Now with technology, Snoop Dog is now Snoop Lion the Reggae star.
You used to have to earn your way into Prog, now it's just copy and paste your way into it.
Still trotting out the same old drivel I see.
What Snoop Dog does is completely irrelevant to Progressive Rock.
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14565
Posted: September 30 2013 at 01:38
Surrealist wrote:
Computers changed the game, and that is way classic prog faded. Before computers entered the recording studios, bands had to play the stuff.. even if they were punching tracks.. still had to do it. Now with technology, Snoop Dog is now Snoop Lion the Reggae star.
You used to have to earn your way into Prog, now it's just copy and paste your way into it.
Are you sure? Have you ever listened to Tangerine Dream? What's the difference between computers and sequencers? It's like who says that keyboards can't be used for classical music because they are not "natural" instruments, but is a violin natural? does any "natural" object like a tree or a thunder sound like a violin or a piano?
With this basis we'd never had evolved from tribal percussion, the only natural sounds that you can find in music other than vocals.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
Joined: January 15 2013
Location: Oregon, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2673
Posted: September 30 2013 at 01:48
Surrealist wrote:
Funny stuff... Trick being a pop record! but I can certainly see your point.... if your frame of reference were Can Utility and the Coastliners.
I can only wish a new Prog Band would come out with a recording like that.
One thing that separated the top Prog bands from rock bands was their
ability to play complex music live. While this might seem obvious
now.. it might likely be lost on this generation. Kids can make all
kinds of complex music on a computer with lots of copy and paste and
digital manipulation. So now.. the "WOW" factor is pretty much gone.
I really wish the whole digital music thing didn't happen for another 50 or 100 years or maybe never.
We recorded all our records on tape machines early on.. but switched to digital over the last decade or so.
Now we are back on tape machines because we were spending way too much
time on a computer trying to manipulate stuff or trying to fix things
that really didn't need fixing. The bar has been raised so high for
production values that it has stripped a lot of the feel and humanity
from a recording. So in our new studio.. NO COMPUTERS ALLOWED. Not
even a smart phone. No automated board.. just tape reels, and a
board. We are not even using outboard gear from the board other than a
couple very basic things like a couple compressors. What this is doing
to us is forcing us to play better, spend more time practicing our
instruments and developing the sounds from our instruments and gear so
that when it goes down onto tape.. it is done. That is our sound. We
are not recording dry and then trying to find a sound from a bank of
samples or plug ins. This changes one's approach and consciousness
about making music. It's a much more organic and creative process
because the limitations actually force you to be more resourceful and
play better. And believe it or not.. when you are playing better, you
tend to be more inspired and creative also.
My baby niece whines and complains less than you. There are plenty of different people making plenty of different kinds of music. All you gotta do is pick through the mess of genres, sub-genres, and post-genres and find the ones you like. Or just listen Foxtrot repeatedly.
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18096
Posted: September 30 2013 at 10:13
Hi,
I don't think that computers have anything to do with it whatsoever. Makes it sound like that just because it was accoustic that classical music could not progress to anything that we can listen to after 500 years. But then, not many have heard the Incredible String Band, or many other things, either!
The only issue in that area, is actually not computers ... but electricity, which has gone on to change a lot more in the music that might not otherwise be visible ... but that does not belong in this thread.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Joined: October 20 2009
Location: Not Here
Status: Offline
Points: 1754
Posted: September 30 2013 at 11:00
We don't all sit around and watch re-runs of MASH or Gilligan's Island or Barney Miller, do we? We want the new stuff. It's nice to re-visit the classics, of course. But we often want to join the current stream as well - just to know what's going on, and participate in the dialogue. There's a large social component to our enjoyment of art and culture. It's not all solitary passive consumption, alone in a darkened room; rather, we want to share, discuss, analyze, enthuse.
To get all Marxist: Contemporary music (with its constant shifts and upheavals and chasing after new fashions, new technologies, new modes of expression) reflects the mode of production, which has entered a state of impermanence and instability, and resulted in invividuals just as racked by those massive contradictions...
I applaud your honesty and being able to think outside the box. All the new prog rock does not sound like prog metal and some of it sounds to these ears as good as the classic stuff.
Computers changed the game, and that is way classic prog faded. Before computers entered the recording studios, bands had to play the stuff.. even if they were punching tracks.. still had to do it. Now with technology, Snoop Dog is p now Snoop Lion the Reggae star. You used to have to earn your way into Prog, now it's just copy and paste your way into it.
Actually it's the other way around. Modern music has improved upon the simplistic "music" that was started in those archaic times. All you had to do to be an "artist" back then was own an instrument. All these bands you put on a throne were simply lucky that they even had an audience that was able to put up with the stuff. Genesis wishes they could of made the complex, innovative, and breathtaking albums of truly progressive artists that don't simply add an acoustic guitar line over some drums and talk about birds flying. Sure they were the first, but hey... I guess you have to start somewhere. Computers have finally taken us out of the primitive times.
Joined: October 12 2012
Location: Squonk
Status: Offline
Points: 232
Posted: September 30 2013 at 13:38
Computers allow musicians to fix things they didn't play correctly in the first place. Copy and paste a clip that was not played. It's brainwashing musicians into believing that things need to be perfect. Programs that quantize and align rhythm tracks that the musicians didn't play is standard protocol now. Pitch shifters that change to something that wasn't played.
In the old days, you could feel a band playing. Every band had a unique feel. That millisecond of space between the musicians... or even a click track for that matter. Feel is deviation.
Now there are computer programs that add "human feel" to the track after it has been quantized. This is INSANE.
Turn off your computers children, and learn to play your instrument and record it on the best medium available.. ANALOG TAPE.
Dean,
Snoop Dogg has everything to do with progressive. HE PROGRESSED From his prior genre into a new one.. this is exactly what has happened to Prog Rock. People here bash a band for doing the same tired old thing. That old 70's stuff. But all the great stuff was done in the 70's. It's because everyone was told to progress... into computers, drum machines, mid and other silly non musical artifacts of that anti music generation that is still pushing people away from what all great music has and always had. Swing and feel.
Joined: October 12 2012
Location: Squonk
Status: Offline
Points: 232
Posted: September 30 2013 at 13:41
Horizons wrote:
Surrealist wrote:
Computers changed the game, and that is way classic prog faded. Before computers entered the recording studios, bands had to play the stuff.. even if they were punching tracks.. still had to do it. Now with technology, Snoop Dog is p now Snoop Lion the Reggae star. You used to have to earn your way into Prog, now it's just copy and paste your way into it.
Genesis wishes they could of made the complex, innovative, and breathtaking albums of truly progressive artists
That may be the funniest thing I have ever heard on this forum.
Computers allow musicians to fix things they didn't play correctly in the first place. Copy and paste a clip that was not played. It's brainwashing musicians into believing that things need to be perfect. Programs that quantize and align rhythm tracks that the musicians didn't play is standard protocol now. Pitch shifters that change to something that wasn't played.
In the old days, you could feel a band playing. Every band had a unique feel. That millisecond of space between the musicians... or even a click track for that matter. Feel is deviation.
Now there are computer programs that add "human feel" to the track after it has been quantized. This is INSANE.
Turn off your computers children, and learn to play your instrument and record it on the best medium available.. ANALOG TAPE.
You don't really know anything about the current wave of progressive music, right?
The highlighted part of your post is pure and utter rubbish, and it really reveals how little you know of this subject to be honest.
Now you've been on about this ever since you started visiting PA, and although we've been blessed with a bit of a break from your biased ramblings, it still is quite irritating to have you back doing the exact same thing.
Sure there are some artists out there who use computers to fix up their mistakes, but mostly you'll find them in the current radio friendly sphere.
"Computers" are today used for countless things - some of them being instrumental use and as ways of contorting sound much like they did back in the day with pedals and all kinds of homemade devices.
Also, computers were used during the 70s as well - Tangerine Dream, Klaus Schulze? No?
Again, I must urge you to stick with what you know - ie the old school classic prog and stop making gross generalisations about music that you obviously don't understand and perhaps even more likely haven't heard.
Oh and the rest of your post again illustrates my point. It is very much possible to play a "computer" like any other instrument - induce feel, vibrancy all of that good stuff. Had you been born some 100 years ago, you'd be saying the same nonsense about the electrification of the guitar and piano.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
If you come here and stand on your soapbox every chance you get, you probably won't make many friends. I love classic prog as much as the next guy but to denounce all modern music... now that would be insane. We appreciate music here whether its made with a computer or with a Steve Hackett.
Computers changed the game, and that is way classic prog faded. Before computers entered the recording studios, bands had to play the stuff.. even if they were punching tracks.. still had to do it. Now with technology, Snoop Dog is p now Snoop Lion the Reggae star. You used to have to earn your way into Prog, now it's just copy and paste your way into it.
Genesis wishes they could of made the complex, innovative, and breathtaking albums of truly progressive artists
That may be the funniest thing I have ever heard on this forum.
I'm guessing you don't look over any of your posts.
Joined: March 29 2013
Location: WA
Status: Offline
Points: 4596
Posted: September 30 2013 at 17:48
Surrealist wrote:
Computers changed the game, and that is way classic prog faded. Before computers entered the recording studios, bands had to play the stuff.. even if they were punching tracks.. still had to do it. Now with technology, Snoop Dog is now Snoop Lion the Reggae star.
You used to have to earn your way into Prog, now it's just copy and paste your way into it.
Coming into this thread late, but I don't see why so many are attacking Surrealist and calling him names for having a point of view...it's like a differing opinion is somehow threatening and must be quashed at all costs. Is there no room for an opinion that challenges your own on PA? We're talking about the art of music here and as such there is no absolute truth that can be proven in a lab, there is simply a collection of opinions and I find it disheartening when others here are not open minded and willing to accept that.
Coming into this thread late, but I don't see why so many are attacking Surrealist and calling him names for having a point of view...it's like a differing opinion is somehow threatening and must be quashed at all costs. Is there no room for an opinion that challenges your own on PA? We're talking about the art of music here and as such there is no absolute truth that can be proven in a lab, there is simply a collection of opinions and I find it disheartening when others here are not open minded and willing to accept that.
He is welcome to his opinion, I can even a couple valid points, but its that fact that he seems to bring this up at every chance even if it doesn't relate to the topic is just kind of annoying for me. I've seen him post about this in several different threads now.
Computers changed the game, and that is way classic prog faded. Before computers entered the recording studios, bands had to play the stuff.. even if they were punching tracks.. still had to do it. Now with technology, Snoop Dog is now Snoop Lion the Reggae star. You used to have to earn your way into Prog, now it's just copy and paste your way into it.
Coming into this thread late, but <span style="line-height: 1.2;">I don't see why so many are attacking Surrealist and calling him names for having a point of view...it's like a differing opinion is somehow threatening and must be quashed at all costs. Is there no room for an opinion that challenges your own on PA? We're talking about the art of music here and as such there is no absolute truth that can be proven in a lab, there is simply a collection of opinions and I find it disheartening when others here are not open minded and willing to accept that.</span>
The.Crimson.King wrote:
Surrealist wrote:
Computers changed the game, and that is way classic prog faded. Before computers entered the recording studios, bands had to play the stuff.. even if they were punching tracks.. still had to do it. Now with technology, Snoop Dog is now Snoop Lion the Reggae star. You used to have to earn your way into Prog, now it's just copy and paste your way into it.
Coming into this thread late, but <span style="line-height: 1.2;">I don't see why so many are attacking Surrealist and calling him names for having a point of view...it's like a differing opinion is somehow threatening and must be quashed at all costs. Is there no room for an opinion that challenges your own on PA? We're talking about the art of music here and as such there is no absolute truth that can be proven in a lab, there is simply a collection of opinions and I find it disheartening when others here are not open minded and willing to accept that.</span>
Gotta agree here 100%. It isn't fair at all. I think some people even wanted Surrealist to change a review he wrote for Gentle Giant's FREEHAND if I am not mistaken. That wasnt fair either. I wonder if Nazi's exist here on PA?
But anyway. I think their is in most cases to disagree with someone's opinions in a nice manner...it can be an art really.
Lastly, To say how classic rock faded ( key word is faded, not extinct) definitively is far too difficult to say or tell because it would be a collection of variables and not just a single one. I think the sole purpose and definition of what 'evolution' is would be one variable or factor as to why classic rock is almost extinct.
I will pose a question. Could the evolution of hard rock, metal and or Prog metal have played a hand in squishing the popularity of Classic rock?
Lol. I really don't hear new bands in Rock sounding like TRIUMPH or BOSTON anymore.
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Why classic prog faded?
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Surrealist wrote:
I've seen him post about this in several different threads now.
