Pink Floyd Appreciation Thread |
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brainstormer
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 887 |
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One thing that's important is in seeing how songs change shape over time. If you listen to, for instance, the rarities tracks that come with nany newer CDs, you can see sketches of songs that in the beginning how little resemblence to the later form. The T Rex CD's are a great example of this. I'm a big early Pink Floyd fan so there's no axe to grind but also the Electric Prunes seems to have been left out of Prog History. See another post by me on the European acceptance of Non-European prog here. Are there recordings from these 1966 gigs? I just think the hype machine of the biggest bands let alone their fans is something to be reckoned with. These could have been versions that sounded like something different than the Floyd of later 1967. |
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Pow R. Toc H. is a curious title. Toc H was the abbreviation for Talbot House in WWI spelling alphabet used by the Royal Signals but Pow is not from that phonetic alphabet. However, the logo for Talbot House was a stylised Aladdin's Lamp: A lamp noted for being not very bright, such that army radio operator slang for a not very bright person was "As dim as a Toc H lamp" which suggests (to me at least) that the Pow R (power) is derived from that.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Oh most certainly, later Floyd were well known for developing songs over long periods live before committing them to tape, and with tracks like Set The Controls and Astronomie Domine, for continuing to develop them live after recording. early live versions I have heard of Astronomie Domine are undated but do sound very much like the album (and generally clock in at 4 minutes rather than the 8 minutes of Ummagumma). Those early recordings compare more to Interstella Overdrive and Nick's Boogie than they do to anything the Prunes released.
However, there is nothing in the structure and format of the Electric Prunes song to suggest that any radical changes were made to Astronomie as a result of Barrett hearing Electric Prunes. One thing Mason noted about their first tour of the USA was how different they were to the US Psychedelic bands they toured with.
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infandous
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2447 |
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Yeah, things were quite different back then, and it wasn't particularly easy to hear new American music in England (Dean can probably tell me if I'm correct or not......this is what I gathered from a couple Floyd books I've read). Much of the psychedelic scene in Britain was developed out of what they THOUGHT the Americans were doing. It turned out to be quite different when they actually saw it up close.
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brainstormer
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OK, these are second parties talking about what they themselves heard. Someone was saying
how impressed Syd was with the Electric Prunes song. You can hear it in Floyd's record months later after the Prunes LP was released. If you've followed the words of rock stars, you know, that it doesn't matter what they say, it's often one sided. The Electric Prunes were touring with Soft Machine, back in the day. You can hear the live 1967 CD on Youtube currently to hear how they sounded live. No one can really take away anything from Floyd that is due them, but sometimes these bands, and solo artists like Eno, try to have an image that they are these unassailable gods that didn't take without giving credit. For some reason, certain bands are not liked, and I think precisely it is because they were the most original and earliest adapters. Lesser beings always need to take credit and cover their tracks, making sure no one really cares about the originals. You can hear how noisy and punky the Nice were in their last 1970 recording. Let's get those nails and crosses, shall we? |
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Dean
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Julian Palacios is not a second party, he is a third or forth party.
However, these kinds of comments leave me unmoved and unimpressed. If you can seriously hear the beginnings oof Progressive Rock in the early Prunes albums then so be it. What I am saying is Astronomie Domine structurally and musically is a million miles away from Are You Lovin' Me More (But Enjoying It Less) and the intro was not a "wholesale lift" - it bears a resemblence, and if the anecdote is true then it explains why there is a resemblence... For that, it does not qualify as being influential on (or even having any part in) the formation of Progressive Rock as a genre. Of course Barrett didn't invent everything they did without being influenced by other people - the name of the band alone is enough to show that - but everything that influenced his song writting isn't necessarily part of the beginnings of Prog Rock, and that is what we are interested in here.
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brainstormer
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 887 |
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I would agree that Floyd didn't take much from the EP's song. The history of prog and the
Electric Prunes does change though with their 2 concept albums in 1968, Mass in F Minor, and Release of an Oath. I'm just tracking this stuff as it's being told to me.
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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Dean
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14117 |
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Correct| Thank you for mentioning a genius like Axelrod
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Dellinger
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I would really love if one of this '66 concerts were to be found and released. |
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brainstormer
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This is completely wrong. Most of the Prunes played on Mass in F Minor. If you can't see that is James Lowe singing, I wonder why you would even post information like this? He sang the thing in Latin because he had Latin in school.....not an easy feat. Mark Tulin the bassist for the Prunes was even a studio musician later and later played with Billy Corgan. James Lowe became a very important studio engineeer working with Todd Rundgren, and he also produced the early Sparks albums.
Edited by brainstormer - April 01 2013 at 10:18 |
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Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
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rushfan4
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14117 |
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He has my same age, but I never play Marvin Gaye
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
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Poor fella. His ass needs to be relocated to Mojave.
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zumacraig
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At lest Floyd is mellow. It could've been worse. The dude could've been blasting black metal or something.
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Stardust we are.
-Roine Stolt |
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dr wu23
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I always liked Floyd but never was a big fan......and I think Barret is not the genius many feel he was. He may have developed into a great song writer and player if he hadn't had his breakdown but who knows..? There are some nice tracks on all the early ones up to and including Umma Gumma but also a lot of mediocre material.
I liked Meddle, DSOTM, and Wish You Were here the best but then I listened to those in college when we were all..ahem,, in an altered state.....even Animals and The Wall had some very mediocre stuff on them. Certainly a unique and even ground breaking band but they also did some uninspired writing...imho. |
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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zumacraig
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Dr. Wu,
Yes, the Wall is kind of over-rated. Not Animals though. That's as good as it gets, imho. Final Cut is excellent too. I start with Meddle too. There's some interesting stuff before that, but they really hit their stride with Meddle. Atom Heart Mother could've been their first classic, but the orchestrations and choirs absolutely ruin the title track for me. More has some nice tunes. To me, the first two albums are unlistenable.
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Stardust we are.
-Roine Stolt |
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rushfan4
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dr wu23
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Animals has some nice things on it but the songs tend to drag at times for me......and Final Cut is ..well... simply not a good lp...imho.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin |
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