Is Steven Wilson making Prog music?

Well, I've never really thought of Porcupine Tree as being very progressive, though they certainly had a number of prog elements to their sound.  That didn't stop me from enjoying, and even loving, their music.  I would say Wilson's solo stuff is decidedly REGRESSIVE, as it's quite plainly a nostalgia trip.  That said, I think it's fantastic and done with such skill, conviction and feeling that it hardly matters what you call it, it's just great music (but as retro as any of the bands accused of being retro prog on this site......to me, there is nothing wrong with that at all).

What bugs me is the use of the word "overrated" and "underrated".  Bands and artists are "rated" exactly as they should be, obviously.  Whether or not an individual thinks otherwise is completely irrelevant.  I don't understand the popularity of Beyonce or Justin Timberlake, for instance, but that doesn't matter to their fans at all.

Wilson is undeniably the most well known and popular prog related musician currently, so he obviously "rates" for a lot of people (and even being the most popular "prog" musician, that popularity is STILL dwarfed by the two acts I mentioned previously.......something that will baffle me until the day I die).


Edited by infandous - March 15 2013 at 08:19

infandous wrote: What bugs me is the use of the word "overrated" and "underrated".

jude111 wrote: infandous wrote: What bugs me is the use of the word "overrated" and "underrated".   That's weird that it would bug you. To say that a band is underrated suggests that they are being over-looked or undervalued, and someday this error may be corrected. Embedded within these terms is the notion that value judgments are temporal, unstable, and subject to constant revision and reevaluation. For example, Talk Talk were very underrated; in their time, they were critically maligned, considered to be derivative at best and hopelessly out-of-date at worst, and ignored by the general public. Only as time went by were they re-evaluated, rescued from obscurity and exalted to the 'canon'. I think it's interesting to consider the case of Floyd's Ummagumma, how it was received at the time, its influence, and its waning popularity. At the time of its release, many critics in England hailed the album as Floyd's best, a masterpiece, in which they finally realized their potential. Both the studio album and the live album were obviously very influential; indeed, this might be Floyd's most "Germanic" album. However, shifting values and the dominance of American music magazines (as well as the strong ideology of American critics) led to the album's being increasing dismissed, till today it has the reputation of being mediocre. Personally, I love the studio album, and consider it to be underrated by most.

While I don't disagree with anything here (I love Ummagumma, as well as Talk Talk), I'm not really sure how it addresses what I wrote.  Those two words are simply value judgments based on personal opinion.  Everything your wrote reinforces the uselessness of such words.  Ummagumma was created and released in a very different time.  Tastes, styles, and fashions change, and so did the perception of the album.....not for you and I, but that doesn't mean we are right and everyone else is wrong.  I don't get the impression that "mainstream" opinion has changed at all in relation to Talk Talk's later albums either.  Just in the case of some folks on this board, though I'm no expert on what people think about them.

What bugs me about the terms is that people imply that their view is correct and everyone with a contrary view is not.  I find that absurd when talking about music.  Your millage may differ.

The problem about the whole thing though is the fact that most people don't necessarily use those terms in the correct manner. It looses it's meaning by people slinging around phrases like David Gilmour is underrated, because they feel they love his work even more than others, and that folks should immediately start loving him even harder...

The Doctor wrote: The Beatles?  Underrated.

As downhill skiers perhaps.

jude111 wrote: infandous wrote: Tastes, styles, and fashions change, and so did the perception of the album.....not for you and I, but that doesn't mean we are right and everyone else is wrong.  I don't get the impression that "mainstream" opinion has changed at all in relation to Talk Talk's later albums either.  Just in the case of some folks on this board, though I'm no expert on what people think about them. What bugs me about the terms is that people imply that their view is correct and everyone with a contrary view is not.  I find that absurd when talking about music.  Your millage may differ. Values don't just change randomly; rather, they are contested, and it is through struggle and contestation that they change. When a person says "this album is underrated," they are entering that struggle, contesting received wisdom and hegemonic discourses.

Fair enough.  Then they need to explain why they feel that way, which rarely seems to happen around here.

Dean wrote: 'Underrated' is not as emotive as "overrated" ... someone saying Gilmour is underrated isn't going to get quite the reaction that saying he is overrated will.

if someday PA decides to add Lady Gaga as a Prog artist and people find her here they rate her as one of the top ten artists in the lists , then we would say she is overrated in PA. the term overrated for artists like Wilson and Gilmour is in the same direction because this site is for Prog fans not for blues fans or pop fans and the ratings here should reflect the taste of Prog lovers, so when i see Wilson as one of the top 20 in the "top prog albums of all time" i will use the term Overrated because i expect to see artists with higher level of prog music in their work as top 20 here( in this specific site).  when Wilson is highly rated in Allmusic (for example) i`ll never wonder why.

Lady Gaga is not a prog artist but im sure she will get a high rating here! if you dont believe it try it and add her as a prog artist!