Bonuses for bankers |
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Easy Livin
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 21 2004 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 15585 |
Posted: March 01 2013 at 03:07 | |||
I'm certainly not going to defend the actions of those who have created the mess the Banks find themselves in. There is however a lot of hypocrisy, misinformation and misunderstanding when it comes to bankers and bonuses.
The term Bankers is misleading for a start. The vast majority of people who work for banks receive average or lower salaries. The people who serve you in your branch for example probably get paid less than you. Even the branch manager these days is little more than a glorified supervisor. If they get a bonus at all, it might be 3 or 4 % of their salary, and then only if they are deemed to have "performed" really well. I'm sure we all know people who work in banks who would laugh at the idea that they get enormous bonuses. The people getting the big bonuses are the people in the top jobs and the traders in the global markets who effectively gamble with the banks' money. These people are not "bankers" in the traditional sense, they are commodity traders who might just as easily be dealing in petrol or gas or gold. These traders should be grouped together under a global title, not just conveniently called bankers. Looking at bonuses themselves, these are an effective incentive if they are used properly. They are used in all walks of life. No one ever questions a footballer getting a huge bung for winning the cup, do they? A bonus is the "at risk" part of your salary. A "Banker's" salary might be say £100,000. His employer's say to him, we will pay you £50,000 guaranteed. To get the other £50000 you have to make the company £1 million. If you don't, you don;t get the bonus. If he does, he appears to get a bonus of the equivalent of his salary. What if they had jsut paid him £100,000, would you be happier because it was less transparent? Taking it further, the employer says to the"banker" for every £1 million profit you make for the company, we will give you £50,000. The guy makes a profit for the company of £10 million. His bonus is £500,000. He has added £10 million to the companies profits though. Does this show that incentives a work? Maybe. And what happens to those profits? They go to the rich eh? well actually most of them go to you and me. The big investors in companies are pension funds, and other investors such as unit trusts, mortgage equity savings, etc. You and I demand that our pension funds make as much money as they can for us. The pension funds in turn put pressure on the companies they invest in to perform well and make big profits. The companies offer their staff bonuses to make big profits. Who is behind the banker's bonuses, why it's YOU!! So a bit less of the hypocrisy. It's very easy to put your head in the sand and point the finger at others. A bit more honesty all round when it comes to our own greed would not go amiss.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: March 01 2013 at 02:54 | |||
To be fair, the opium trade was legal back then, and it is still legally cultivated for medical pharmaceutical use today.
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What?
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
Posted: March 01 2013 at 02:26 | |||
Nope - call me Mr head in the sand, but I genuinely did not know that |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 17:19 | |||
I really don't care, I used to...oh when I was a pissed off progressive I wanted them all to burn. Especially after the recession.
In recent years, I've realized I really don't care about the wild world that is wall street. They can live in their small universe where they shuffle money around, make millionaires multi millionaires, live and die by the volatile stock market, even use their insane lending techniques....as long as it stays in their small universe. Sadly, they have increasingly been moving into the economy at large and I fear now we all are becoming tethered to them and their games! That is what I don't like and seems like a dangerous place to be, especially when they don't pay for their stupidity. |
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 17:14 | |||
...ya didn't hear? Well OK I don't know about it's origins, that seems a little nutty, but yeah there was a huge non scandal about HSBC and links to drugs http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/outrageous-hsbc-settlement-proves-the-drug-war-is-a-joke-20121213 http://www.nbcnews.com/business/report-hsbc-allowed-money-laundering-likely-funded-terror-drugs-889170 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/02/hsbc-money-laundering-colombian-drug-traffickers_n_2395167.html |
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3145 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 17:12 | |||
The Last One
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13627 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 16:09 | |||
Funniest banker thing I ever saw, which is probably off topic a little bit, but never mind.
ITV, some years ago, were showing a League Cup Semi Final Mach live. Gary Newbon, one time sports reporter and latterly chief editor, was on the touch line for a live feed. Cue thousands of fans behind him, who started chanting:: "Gary Newbon.....he's a wa**ker, he's a wa**ker....." The camera cut out, and the editor went back to the studio. Cue embarrassed silence, whereupon Jimmy Greaves turns to a distraught presenter (Tony Wilson), and says deadpan: "I didn't realise Gary was a merchant banker, Tony!" The adverts followed immediately as the entire studio collapsed laughing. Many a true word spoken in jest, eh?
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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Man With Hat
Collaborator Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team Joined: March 12 2005 Location: Neurotica Status: Offline Points: 166178 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 15:46 | |||
BANKERS ARE OUR LORDS
WE SHALL BOW DOWN TO THEM AND LICK THEIR FEET TOUCH THEM WHERE THEY WANT AND FILL THEIR LIVES WITH PLEASURE |
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 15:32 | |||
Yes but again, if they bought all that sovereign debt with money they have that would be quite legitimate, the problem is that they buy debt with money they do not actually have. Last year, with most of the Spanish banks bordering bankrupcy which was strangling Spanish economy to death because companies could not receive financing from the banks (caused by a crazy real-state bubble which is not the purpose to discuss here), the EU Central Bank finally provided an injection of capital for 40 billion euro to re-capitalise the Spanish banking sector. What has happened? Since the interest of the Spanish debt is very high (around 6%) the banks are using the money they received to buy Spanish debt instead of pumping it into the real economy. The economy is not moving at all because the companies do not yet get any financing from the banks, a relatively safe and attractive 6% interest from the Spanish government is more interesting than lending money to a company which who knows if they will make profit or losses. The government is happy because they can show decreasing risk premium figures but it's all a masquerade quite removed from real economy. A lot of money pumped in but not to boost real economy, just to make 'the investors' quiet and safe.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 16442 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 13:17 | |||
I think the reason why the government lets the banks off of the hook, cause they pretty much provide the government with a free ride... I mean look at the debt spending binges of countries like the US, the UK, Germany, Japan and China.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 13:11 | |||
Banking was a more or less respectable business in its origins, when people having money lent it in exchange for a return with interest (and vice-versa).
Nowadays it has become a business where they lend money they do not have, the whole economy is built on money or wealth which does not yet exist, only on the expectation (or rather, hope) that it will exist in the future. This is what makes the modern financial world an irresponsible risk to the rest of the society.
Edited by Gerinski - March 01 2013 at 00:23 |
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 12:21 | |||
HSBC mainstream articles about money laundering activities..
Guardian Daily Mail Al Jazeera Daily Record The Telegraph I could go on... Anyway, the dubious activities of HSBC are the tip of the iceberg. The dubious trading of institutions such as Goldman Sachs, Lehmen Brothers and J.P Morgan Chase in relation to the derivatives market would make your head spin. Just as government turned a blind eye to mafia operations for years, they have extended the same courtesy to these institutions, occasionally hanging some fall guy, like Madoff out to dry. Edited by Blacksword - February 28 2013 at 12:29 |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 16442 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 10:17 | |||
It's not even a secret that HSBC launders money for drug cartels, gangs and terrorists, so why be surprised at the history? |
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 09:42 | |||
Many thanks - good old Wiki, eh? |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 09:35 | |||
Bankers need and deserve our full support. They have rough lives of privation and hunger yet they manage to put greed aside in benefit of all their charitable work for the masses. How horrible you people are talking about these seraphims on Earth without your full respect.
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 16442 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 09:01 | |||
I don't think they plan on fixing the Western banking system anytime soon. Too much profits to be made... Only once most of the people start waking up, this can be fixed... |
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 20030 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 08:58 | |||
Thanks Jim, I entirely agree anyway. btw - I'm not a banker, I'm an IT technician who happens to work for a Bank. |
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 16442 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 08:56 | |||
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hongkong_and_Shanghai_Banking_Corporation Read. And it also supplies state sponsors of terrorism with money laundering services. |
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator Retired Admin & Razor Guru Joined: February 02 2004 Location: South England Status: Offline Points: 14693 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 08:46 | |||
Bonuses aside, this is a serious accusation - backup?? |
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
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King of Loss
Prog Reviewer Joined: April 21 2005 Location: Boston, MA Status: Offline Points: 16442 |
Posted: February 28 2013 at 08:40 | |||
I mean have you read the origins of HSBC, I mean the bank was set up for the drug business. |
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