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The T 
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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 Posted: February 21 2013 at 12:26 |
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^Would you extend a rather orthodox and not-so-young-as-you guy who was obviously educated differently and who is in charge of a really old institution the benefit of believing something like that without making it look like impossible or unbelievable?
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: February 21 2013 at 12:31 |
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I think the discussion about condoms misses the point. Condoms are neither the only nor the most effective way to prevent pregnancy. Taken correctly, birth control pills have almost 100% efficacy in preventing unwanted pregnancies. I haven't heard many people railing against condoms, but I do hear people railing against the pill.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: February 21 2013 at 13:07 |
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You should be free to put anything in, or on, your body that you want so long as you aren't hurting someone else nor forcing someone else to pay for it.
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 Time always wins.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: February 21 2013 at 15:17 |
 The Doctor wrote:
Then I stand corrected on your beliefs. However, you don't want any system in place to enforce that people with means live up to their responsibilities to the neglected, helpless, etc. |
No. Because that will ultimately always fail anyway so you effectively only institute a system of punishment which I believe should be avoided whenever possible.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 21 2013 at 16:46 |
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I have a question for some people around these areas (Doc, etc): I am not an anti-abortion guy, but I read today this news in the Huffington Post saying that Arkansas had just passed the most "extreme" abortion ban in the country: with exceptions like rape or life of mother, abortions after 12 weeks of pregnancy are banned. Really? Is that really "extreme"? 3 months should be a good enough time to not be caught by surprise or something. Yet this is extreme? What wouldn't be? 8 and a half months? I'm not an expert so I'm asking opinions.
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: February 21 2013 at 16:57 |
Until the kid is 2 years old.  But seriously, I think the point of viability of the fetus is a good enough time to cut off access to abortion (except in cases where the mother's health or life are in danger, then even 8 1/2 months is ok). Viability is usually considered possible at the end of the second trimester.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: February 21 2013 at 18:05 |
Condoms? Dafuk? Never am disappointed when I pop in here, and nice to see a change of pace from $$ Which BTW I have been looking into Masters degrees...especially MBAs. Even for in state at a decent university, $48,000!? f**k. I wanna cling to my "federal government should have 0 role in student loans/aid" belief but being an idealist is hard 
Edited by JJLehto - February 21 2013 at 18:06
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 21 2013 at 18:13 |
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^Calm down. Financial aid is there for you. And later, a bill to pay that will take you most of the remainder of your natural life.
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: February 21 2013 at 18:19 |
JJLehto wrote:
Condoms? Dafuk?
Never am disappointed when I pop in here, and nice to see a change of pace from $$
Which BTW I have been looking into Masters degrees...especially MBAs. Even for in state at a decent university, $48,000!? f**k.
I wanna cling to my "federal government should have 0 role in student loans/aid" belief but being an idealist is hard
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Sounds like the university needs a condom.
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WanderingLogician
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 01 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 45
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Posted: February 21 2013 at 18:27 |
JJLehto wrote:
Condoms? Dafuk?
Never am disappointed when I pop in here, and nice to see a change of pace from $$
Which BTW I have been looking into Masters degrees...especially MBAs. Even for in state at a decent university, $48,000!? f**k.
I wanna cling to my "federal government should have 0 role in student loans/aid" belief but being an idealist is hard
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Lol, I was in the same boat. I decided to eschew all principles and just be pragmatic about everything. realpolitik FTW.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552
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Posted: February 21 2013 at 20:51 |
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I am a public school teacher.
I got visited by a woman who works for a private business that the public schools hire.
My students showed their asses in front of this woman.
This woman drew from that that this was how I ran my class and she, who had never taught, berated me.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: February 21 2013 at 21:38 |
The T wrote:
^Calm down. Financial aid is there for you. And later, a bill to pay that will take you most of the remainder of your natural life. |
Eh I was lucky to have dodged it the first time around, really can't complain since many I know are in that boat already. ...Rob you work in a..."rough" area? I'll be honest, I went to a large public school and not a terribly affluent one (and had plenty that came from lesser off areas) and I've not seen anything 1% of the sh*t you've talked about.
Edited by JJLehto - February 21 2013 at 21:42
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: February 22 2013 at 11:57 |
^student loans $90,000. new social security number $5,000. being permanently out of debt, priceless.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: February 22 2013 at 12:14 |
Epignosis wrote:
I am a public school teacher.
I got visited by a woman who works for a private business that the public schools hire.
My students showed their asses in front of this woman.
This woman drew from that that this was how I ran my class and she, who had never taught, berated me.
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Part of the problem was certainly the way your students acted. But part of the problem is the way teachers are perceived today in our society. Doesn't it really piss you off that there are a lot of people out there who don't think very much of teachers and automatically blame them for the poor behavior of students? People like that woman are as much a part of the problem in our education system as your students. Bet she doesn't think that it's a good idea to pay more taxes to hire better teachers and keep good teachers around either. Expecting the world for pennies an hour: the business conservative way.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: February 22 2013 at 13:45 |
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^If parents did their job children would learn this quite unique strange and unbelievable word called respect and million things would improve. If children learnt from parents and not from tvs and iPads, if children weren't treated as gods they might even learn to respect others on their own.
I'm asking the impossible.
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
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Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: February 22 2013 at 13:53 |
Well, I don't know, I think I was taught quite well by my parents, yet I was still what one would call a class clown in high school (go figure). Still, I know that's not quite up to the level of bad behavior that Rob was probably talking about (hey, at least they didn't pull a knife or gun on her - that's something  ) and that he teaches what should be adults. So, forget everything I just said.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
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Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17184
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Posted: February 22 2013 at 15:23 |
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I think you're both right, some of it is parents related and some schools related. I've had lousy teachers and good ones, and I doubt they were paid much different, which is a shame. Thankfully I had two great parents for which I'll be forever grateful. I received more of value from those two people than anyone in our local education system.
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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thellama73
Collaborator
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Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: February 22 2013 at 20:15 |
The Doctor wrote:
Until the kid is 2 years old. But seriously, I think the point of viability of the fetus is a good enough time to cut off access to abortion (except in cases where the mother's health or life are in danger, then even 8 1/2 months is ok). Viability is usually considered possible at the end of the second trimester. |
I don' really understand the viability argument. If you take a fetus at the end of the second trimester and remove it from the womb, it will die if nobody feeds it. How is that fundamentally different from a fetus at the end of the first trimester, which will die if nobody incubates it?
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 23 2005
Location: The Tardis
Status: Offline
Points: 8543
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Posted: February 22 2013 at 22:05 |
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Because everybody needs to eat to survive. Most do not need to be incubated to survive. Further, even an incubated 3-month old fetus will probably not survive.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32552
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Posted: February 23 2013 at 05:55 |
The Doctor wrote:
Because everybody needs to eat to survive. Most do not need to be incubated to survive. Further, even an incubated 3-month old fetus will probably not survive.
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Everybody needs anything that everybody needs to survive at some point in life. Many old people need some manner of life support that I presently do not. That doesn't mean one should find it morally acceptable to "abort" old people.
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