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manofmystery 
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
 Posted: February 18 2013 at 15:25 |
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We've been over and over Ayn Rand here. No bomb dropped, at all. For one, I think she was a poor writer and a fairly sh*tty person.
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 Time always wins. |
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: February 18 2013 at 22:41 |
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Just found a quote supposedly attributed to James Callaghan in 1978. If he really said this (and that would be before Thatcherism and Reaganism and all that), I am afraid it pretty much cooks the goose for Keynesian economics because it almost exactly tallies with Hayek's arguments against it.
"We used to think that you could spend your way out of a recession and increase employment by cutting taxes and boosting government spending. I tell you in all candour that that option no longer exists, and in so far as it ever did exist, it only worked on each occasion since the war by injecting a bigger dose of inflation into the economy, followed by a higher level of unemployment as the next step. " You can't create something out of nothing, ultimately. It doesn't last. If it's manufacturing, you need raw materials and in the service sector, you have to provide 'actual' services. Speculative income from commodity derivatives is not service, it's just gambling by another name. That is why the Austrian position is theoretically the most straightforward and honest but, ah, that would put such a massive lid on the years of unbelievable growth we have seen and all that.
 It is not very flexible, I grant, but flexibility too comes with a price which we need to be aware of. |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: February 18 2013 at 22:49 |
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I am confused. Is your point that Ayn Rand is not a conservative? Well, duh. |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: February 19 2013 at 19:26 |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 08:24 |
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Abby Huntsman is some kind of hot.
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 10:58 |
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Yes she is. Whew. Whoever that Logan Albright character was though sure looked scary. Wouldn't want to meet him in a libertarian utopia.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 17184 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 12:06 |
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While it was painful to click on a HuffPo link, it was nice to see you Logan! Kudos!
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 12:17 |
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Yes. Yes. Oh and cool stuff Logan. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 20:47 |
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Logan is a Republican.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 21:01 |
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Okay, I've watched the whole program.
The theme from the other players was this: "Parents have no responsibility for personally taking care of their kids." Abysmal. |
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 21:05 |
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Now I'm not attributing this to you, but conservatives (at least the very social conservatives) don't believe in abortion or in birth control. So I'm guessing only people of means should be allowed to have sex.  |
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 21:09 |
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Why express anger at the notion that people should only engage in activities they can afford? I can't go out to eat once a week, so I don't. If I did, and ran up a massive credit card debt, would you feel bad for me? By the way, I don't know one person who believes a condom is an evil thing. Not one. And I've known Catholics, and they didn't even believe that (God, some of the Catholics were the horniest people I ever met). |
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 21:33 |
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^ But people can afford to have sex. It's children they can't afford to have, so access to birth control (not just condoms) and abortion.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: February 20 2013 at 22:28 |
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If you have sex, there is a chance you will have a child. You should be prepared for that possibility, that's all. (I didn't address the abortion thing because I don't condone infanticide.) |
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 08:14 |
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That's like saying people can afford a cupcake diet, but they can't afford liposuction. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 08:15 |
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I didn't take that away. They seemed to think that since many parents cannot provide the education necessary at a young age that the state should absorb this activity. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 08:34 |
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I do not believe that parents have no responsibility for personally taking care of their kids. In fact, I think a lot of parents nowadays shirk their responsibilities to their children and parental responsibility is something that really needs to make a comeback. But, no matter how much you want it, people are NOT going to stop having sex just because you don't think they should. So the best way to stop irresponsible parents is to give them options for preventing and/or terminating unwanted pregnancies. Further, if the parents don't take responsibility for their children, either because they can't or won't, should the children suffer because of that? I find the conservative (and on this issue, your opinions are conservative) take on this very hypocritical. Can't have abortion or take the pill because those sperm and conglomeration of parasitic cells have a right to turn into children, but once they are out of the womb and alive, conservatives wash their hands and say "those kids aren't my problem"..
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 10:55 |
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This is a great argument except that it assumes the issue of whether the fetus has rights, which really makes it a vacuous argument because it ignores the only true point of contention.
When do I ever say that? I say the fetus has rights no different than mine so it can't be killed. Then I say that it's the job of those with the means to do so to look after the neglected, helpless, unlucky, hungry, sick, and less fortunate members of society. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The Doctor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 23 2005 Location: The Tardis Status: Offline Points: 8543 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 11:01 |
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Then I stand corrected on your beliefs. However, you don't want any system in place to enforce that people with means live up to their responsibilities to the neglected, helpless, etc.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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HarbouringTheSoul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1199 |
Posted: February 21 2013 at 12:23 |
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The (still-current-for-a-week) pope does believe that. Edited by HarbouringTheSoul - February 21 2013 at 12:23 |
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