An Illustrated Guide to Prog Rock Instruments |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: February 19 2013 at 09:28 | ||
Pedro was referring to 12 inch square book format (same size as a vinyl LP) that Roger Dean used on Views and Storm Thorgerson used on books such as Taken By The Storm. @Pedro - Dean produced Magentic Storm (Views 2) in 1984 and Dragon's Dream (Views 3) in 2008.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 19 2013 at 09:16 | ||
Thanks, very informative as always!
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: February 19 2013 at 07:58 | ||
Not really. The type of oscillators used was not a simple replacement of valves by transistors, there was a radical shift in the types of oscillators used. Making stable low frequency valve oscillators is difficult - however you can make a stable high frequency tone and divide that down to the required low frequency. Other valve based musical instruments generated tones that were above the audio spectrum and them used heterodyning to shift them down into the audio spectrum. This still presents design and stability problems so the Novachord essentially turned to digital techniques: creating bistable circuits that could oscillate (multivibrators) to generate the 12-tones of the top octave which were then divided down by further bistables to produce the full 72 notes of the instrument. The keyboard essentially gated (switched) these free-running squarewave tones through to the timbral shaping section - this is not dissimilar to the techniques by some electronic organs. The Novachord was a hybrid system mixing digital and analogue technology (albeit in thermionic valves). Buchlas and Moogs did not develop their synthesisers based upon this method of tone generation - they used voltage control to alter the frequency of a single analogue oscillator module. The oscillators used were far more complex in design and operation than the bistables of the Novachord. Early analogue synths were wholly analogue. Later Moog would use a similar divide-down technique in the (not very successful) Polymoog, but I suspect that was based upon contemporary electronic organ designs rather than the lesser known 30 year old Novachord. Edited by Dean - February 19 2013 at 07:59 |
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 19 2013 at 06:31 | ||
Thanks Pedro, Indeed the correct title should have been 'An Illustrated Guide To Some Of The Instruments Frequently Used In Classic Prog Rock' but I had to condense because of title length limitations and I thought that in the present PA context that would be evident. I never meant to give the idea that any of these instruments 'belonged' to the Prog genres!
The article is about instruments, not about music or musicians, although I admit that Keith Emerson is perhaps a bit over-mentioned but hey, he did really play a role in all of that story and besides, I'm a fan of him
Excuse my ignorance, what is a 12x12 format? Edited by Gerinski - February 19 2013 at 06:39 |
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 19 2013 at 06:27 | ||
I have no idea but were not the Buchlas and Moogs a development of the Novachord synthesis principles but replacing the vacuum tubes by transistors? Replacement of vacuum tubes by transistors was a standard evolution in every electronic device so if that was the case that would make the Novachord a direct precursor leading to the 60's transistor synths?
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Online Points: 17510 |
Posted: February 18 2013 at 21:51 | ||
Hi,
Very nice ... and the pictures make it a nice treat as well. I do not think, however, that I would write this in a book as "progressive rock instruments", since this IS a part of the history of the development of the piano, guitar into the electronic age, and as such, the evaluation and history of it, becomes more important. We forget that the 50's and 60's ... was the major gate to history ... it all became ELECTRIC ... and that was a massively major change for ALL music and instrumentation! I would never want to suggest that none of these was ever used in pop music, specially when ELP were very much a part of the pop music thing, with a couple of "hits" and then doing fun, rock'n'roll songs on the incredible instruments as a joke ... I mean you don't need that much to do the sheriff any justice ... but it sounds good and fun all the same! We should/could add here folks like Beaver & Krause, the works of various composers like Stockhausen that was a forerunner of Riley and many others, and then Tomita for sure. As a book, this will likely do a lot better with a different title than "prog rock instruments" ... because these were ... the instruments of a generation of music history that is what the 20th century was about in music. What we call "progressive" is a lot more about the full work - lyrics and all, than it is about the instruments. But it is a very good piece of work ... makes me want to tell Storm that he needs to update his book on album covers! And Roger needs to do a Views 2 and Views 3 ... and I like the 12x12 format! Yours would be magnificent in that size as well! Edited by moshkito - February 18 2013 at 21:53 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: February 16 2013 at 11:04 | ||
From a pure technical/electronics point of view there is no difference between an electric organ, an electric piano and a synthesiser, the only difference is in application - an electric organ was designed to replicate the sound of a pipe organ and an electric piano was designed to replicate the sound of a piano and to do that the synthesis of timbres were engineered towards the sounds they were designed to replicate. The tab, stops and draw bars of the Hammond replicate the same tab, stops and draw bars in a pipe organ but operate electrical switches rather than levers and air-valves. Even the famous Leslie rotating speaker was an attempt to make the Hammond sound even more like a pipe-organ so essentially, a Hammond Organ is a fixed purpose synthesiser with presets. And the same is true of the electric piano... a preset synthesiser with foot-switches instead of piano peddles.
All of the early electronic instruments were forerunners of the modern synthesiser, though none of them actually lead to the development of the synthesiser as we know it. This lack of continuity from the Novachord and Martenot to the Moog (for example) excludes them from being seen as the first musical synthesisers - they were just electronic musical instruments that used timbral synthesis to create sounds.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 16 2013 at 10:35 | ||
I guess he could have worse things in his mouth
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: February 16 2013 at 10:03 | ||
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 16 2013 at 09:36 | ||
Thanks Dean, a very impressive instrument and concept for its time indeed, the precursor of muzak (or how do you say it in English, 'piped music'?) to say the least!
What's your personal take on the first (musical) synth? I'm not an expert but it seems that the tone generating mechanism of the Telharmonium would classify it as an organ. Many sources refer to the Hammond Novachord (1938-39) as the first musical (vacuum tube) synth but the Trautonium (1933) even if not having a traditional 'piano-like' keyboard seems to me worth qualifying already for a synth? And what about the Ondes Martenot (1928)? Sound was generated from oscillation in vacuum tubes, that would qualify it as a synth wouldn't it? Or perhaps any others I'm not aware about? |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: February 16 2013 at 05:37 | ||
Going off-topic just a little (well quite a lot really), in the OP Gerard mentioned the Telharmonium as a possible (controversial) forerunner of the electronic synthesiser. Back in 1897 (that's not a typo - this was a 19th century device) this fascinating electronic instrument was built by a gentleman with the impressively Victorian name of Thaddeus Cahill. The final version of the Telharmonium weighed in at an astonishing 200 tons.
It used tonewheels (that predated the Hammond organ by some 40 years) to generate electronic sounds, several of which could be mixed toegether (additive harmonic synthesis) and controlled by a truely polyphonic keyboard. These sounds were then transmitted by telegraph/telephone wires to electromechanical paper diaphragms (that were an early form of loud speaker) often several miles from where the instrument was located.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 13 2013 at 00:58 | ||
Yeah I remember them in my childhood, nice comment!
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Warthur
Prog Reviewer Joined: January 06 2008 Location: London, UK Status: Offline Points: 617 |
Posted: February 11 2013 at 11:11 | ||
I would like to perk up to mention one synthesiser not mentioned in the (very impressive) OP: the humble stylophone.
Its operation is simple. You have a stylus. You run a stylus across the pad, making an electrical connection. The tone of the tinny bleeping noise the stylophone makes varies across the pad. It was sold as a novelty and tended to be used by one, but there's a few interesting uses of it on the periphery of prog. David Bowie played one on Space Oddity (accompanied by Rick Wakeman on more grown-up keyboards!), Kraftwerk made use of one on Pocket Calculator, and the "I Do Like to Be Beside the Seaside" bit at the end of Queen's Seven Seas of Rhye (album version) features some. Not, in short, a particularly clever or even impressive instrument, but an iconic one anyway, not least because many British kids of a certain age have fond memories of mucking about with stylophones received as stocking-fillers.
Edited by Warthur - February 11 2013 at 11:13 |
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 11 2013 at 08:54 | ||
A fascinating instrument indeed, it's just that if I start including too many interesting modern instruments this can go on forever, let's see if the Eigenharp or some others find a stable place in modern Prog. |
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DamianX_JVL
Forum Newbie Joined: February 10 2013 Location: Santiago Status: Offline Points: 3 |
Posted: February 10 2013 at 21:31 | ||
Love the synth guitar of Page.
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https://soundcloud.com/agurto
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Ajay
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 01 2013 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 221 |
Posted: February 10 2013 at 10:34 | ||
Save a future slot for the Eigenharp.
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 10 2013 at 08:39 | ||
Entries for the Talk Box and the Vocoder added, I think I'm gonna leave it like this for a while now (unless anybody spots mistakes or important ommisions).
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 09 2013 at 06:20 | ||
Entries for fretless basses and 5 / 6 string basses added, and a couple of updates in other entries.
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7264 |
Posted: February 08 2013 at 18:34 | ||
Well done! You've taken on an ambitious project! I saw Yes on the GFTO tour, Chicago 1977 (I don't remember which day though). I DO remember them opening with "Parallels," and that Mander pipe organ just shook the place (a huge hall!). Steve Howe wailed on a red Stratocaster, it was a fantastic concert! (well, ALL Yes concerts I've seen have been fantastic!) |
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: February 06 2013 at 14:29 | ||
This interview with Wakeman indeed confirms that he toured with a Mander pipe organ so I have edited the entry, it was indeed used in the GFTO tour, not Tormato (the first question is about his gear in the Tormato tour and he says that "the RMI Keyboard Computer took away the need to carry the Mander Pipe Organ this time").
Rick's comment compelled me to add a well deserved entry for RMI and I have also done a couple of updates in the Birotron and Farfisa entries. Edited by Gerinski - February 06 2013 at 15:15 |
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