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Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
Posted: February 06 2013 at 07:13
Dean wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
The drone thing is horrifying and it shocks me that the supposedly anti-war left aren't making a peep about it. Imagine if this had been Bush.
Oh they'd be screaming about if a Rep were in office, or even an Indie. But presumably the far Left are concerned, and the thinking Left as well if they have integrity.
A cursory google of "democrats against drones" suggests that there isn't a partisan split of approval/disaproval, I'm not sure that some liberals and democrats speaking out against their use constitutes "not a peep".
Since you're not a resident of our fair country, you may not be aware of it, but during the Bush administration there was a constant stream of very visible anti-war protests. Anti-war groups would disrupt political events on a regular basis screaming things like "murderer!" and throwing stuff. There were bumper stickers, t-shirts and signs all over the country reading "Bush Lied, Kids Died."
All I'm saying is that we haven't seen anything like that since Obama's election, leading me to believe that these folks were never anti-war so much as anti-Republican.
I'm sure that plenty of Democrats are opposed to the drones, but the loud, visible, troublemaking ones who get on the news and get arrested for the way they behave have been conspicuously silent.
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17241
Posted: February 06 2013 at 07:18
Logan, are you saying Mr. Sunshine Obama and sinister satan Dick Cheney/W were handled somewhat differently in the media and in lefty anti-war circles? Surely you jest.
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
Posted: February 06 2013 at 07:23
This is why I like PETA (even though they are crazy and wrong most of the time.) They have the integrity to stand up for their beliefs even against members of their own party. Although I'm sure most of them voted for him, they lambasted Al Gore for preaching the evils of Greenhouse gasses and yet still eating meat.
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Posted: February 06 2013 at 10:21
thellama73 wrote:
Dean wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
The drone thing is horrifying and it shocks me that the supposedly anti-war left aren't making a peep about it. Imagine if this had been Bush.
Oh they'd be screaming about if a Rep were in office, or even an Indie. But presumably the far Left are concerned, and the thinking Left as well if they have integrity.
A cursory google of "democrats against drones" suggests that there isn't a partisan split of approval/disaproval, I'm not sure that some liberals and democrats speaking out against their use constitutes "not a peep".
Since you're not a resident of our fair country, you may not be aware of it, but during the Bush administration there was a constant stream of very visible anti-war protests. Anti-war groups would disrupt political events on a regular basis screaming things like "murderer!" and throwing stuff. There were bumper stickers, t-shirts and signs all over the country reading "Bush Lied, Kids Died."
All I'm saying is that we haven't seen anything like that since Obama's election, leading me to believe that these folks were never anti-war so much as anti-Republican.
I'm sure that plenty of Democrats are opposed to the drones, but the loud, visible, troublemaking ones who get on the news and get arrested for the way they behave have been conspicuously silent.
I still don't see that as being particularly partisan more an effect of time. Protests against being there (and getting out) are not the same as protests against starting them in the first place. It does seem to be harder to get out of these conflicts than it ever is to get into them.
Sure I'm not a resident of your country, (nor am I a democrat or a republican), however, my country stands alongside yours in the Middle East (albeit without access to the drones). Over here we entered into the Afghanistan and Iraqi wars when the left were in power (assuming any one believes that Blair and Brown were ever Left) with equally visible anti-war protests in London. Now we have the right in power (assuming any one believes that "call me Dave" Cameron and corporal Clegg are any more Right than Blair & Brown) these protests still occur in large numbers and are still visible if anyone's bothering to look, but now people are protesting about our continued presence there.
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
Posted: February 06 2013 at 11:11
Padraic wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I have a BA in Russian and East European Studies. I guess prog fans are all dumb when it comes to picking majors.
Electrical Engineering, bitch.
You're so avant, Pat.
Seriously though, outside of Dean, Pat, Doc, and myself, there have to be other people on here who have picked decent or really good majors. Granted, I would put myself underneath the other 3 because I can't handle the math (read: calculus) on the engineering side or the thought processes on the accounting side.
Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17241
Posted: February 06 2013 at 11:46
Watched a cool documentary last night that you smart electronics guys would have loved.
It was about Shockley Labs and defection of their 8 top young engineers to Fairchild, as well as the origins of Silicon Valley. Had some great footage of the early years of tubes, transistors, and their design/fabrication.
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
Posted: February 06 2013 at 12:24
thellama73 wrote:
Congrats to Pat on his PhD candidacy! I don't think I could stomach one in Economics, although I would be interested in getting one in Folklore and Mythology or Western Esoterica someday.
Thank you. I've done a few classes at the PhD level which I've found just kind of boring.
I'm taking this one next quarter:
Introduces market failure as a justification for government provision of
public goods and regulation. Covers public choice theory and
cost-benefit analysis for public expenditure, impact of taxation on
efficiency, incidence of taxes, personal and corporate income taxes, and
fiscal federalism.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 06 2013 at 14:24
Do you argue with teachers a lot? I mean in classes during lectures and discussions. I can't see you as just hearing things that for you make no sense and staying silent.
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
Posted: February 06 2013 at 14:32
Most of my classes are hard sciences so there's really no arguments to be had. If I find reasoning spurious, then I may question it. There's little reason to argue though because the clarifications exist and I know they will be valid.
When I've taken economics, political science, literature, etc. courses I tended to be just as vocal as the professor and I assume very annoying in general. I took a political science class called the Presidents which held as its central tenet that a President is great if and only if he's manipulative, power hungry, and conducts a war. Those lectures were little more than me and the professor screaming at each other.
Edited by Equality 7-2521 - February 06 2013 at 14:32
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 06 2013 at 14:37
A sight to behold, I am sure
I have been very vocal in classes like that but eventually I get tired of always being in the minority and heading so much nonsense around me. Usually I spent the later weeks of such classes silent as an oak.
I have a BA in Russian and East European Studies. I guess prog fans are all dumb when it comes to picking majors.
Electrical Engineering, bitch.
You're so avant, Pat.
Seriously though, outside of Dean, Pat, Doc, and myself, there have to be other people on here who have picked decent or really good majors. Granted, I would put myself underneath the other 3 because I can't handle the math (read: calculus) on the engineering side or the thought processes on the accounting side.
IDK...looks like a lot of our majors were pretty high on the "this was a poor life choice" ladder!
My original was actually Meteorology. But I can't do math...I worked my ass off to get Bs in HS math. My A- in pre-calc was like seeing heaven Meteorology required calc 4, thermodynamics, and tons of calculus based science. Afterm my placement exame I was given 3 semesters of catch up aka just to get to the starting line. I would've failed miserably, killed myself or maybe have accomplished it, after 10 years! Its a limited job field though, actually Poli Sci may be better in regards to potential jobs. Yeah I know, guess I can't make fun of anyone for being a nerd. Weather was my earliest interest, well before music and politics.
Vocal in class...only when it was encouraged which was philosophy and certain political sciences. Otherwise I kept shut up and just did my work. IKR...can you believe I can be not running my mouth? I never really called out profs, though I wanted to at times.
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
Posted: February 06 2013 at 15:50
The T wrote:
A sight to behold, I am sure
I have been very vocal in classes like that but eventually I get tired of always being in the minority and heading so much nonsense around me. Usually I spent the later weeks of such classes silent as an oak.
I get the urge to do that as well. However, if not for the arguments, then I would have little incentive to even attend the lectures since they're just a regurgitation of theory that's easily understandable without the intercession of a professor.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Posted: February 06 2013 at 16:42
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
A sight to behold, I am sure
I have been very vocal in classes like that but eventually I get tired of always being in the minority and heading so much nonsense around me. Usually I spent the later weeks of such classes silent as an oak.
I get the urge to do that as well. However, if not for the arguments, then I would have little incentive to even attend the lectures since they're just a regurgitation of theory that's easily understandable without the intercession of a professor.
Agreed. Though there is an extra "incentive" in some classes called "mandatory attendance or points taken" . I've always felt that as being treated as a child.
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
Posted: February 07 2013 at 10:46
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
horsewithteeth11 wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
manofmystery wrote:
Well, that sounds absolutely awful
Really? It's not like it's Law or Business or something. This stuff actually makes sense.
I'll go take my Finance degree elsewhere then... :(
Hey, me finding a subject boring, tedious, and arbitrary does not mean there's anything wrong with it.
Oh I know. I was just making a poor joke out of it is all.
Honestly, I could see my brother going your route if it wasn't for the fact that he's so interested in biological research. Last semester he took Calc 3 because he felt like it and this semester he's taking Math Theory (don't know much about it other than that Calc 2 is a pre-req for it) for his last math requirement.
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Dean wrote:
Meteorology required calc 4, thermodynamics, and tons of calculus based science. Afterm my placement exame I was given 3 semesters of catch up aka just to get to the starting line. I would've failed miserably, killed myself or maybe have accomplished it, after 10 years! Its a limited job field though, actually Poli Sci may be better in regards to potential jobs. Yeah I know, guess I can't make fun of anyone for being a nerd. Weather was my earliest interest, well before music and politics. 
. I've always felt that as being treated as a child.