"Freedom" thread or something

rogerthat wrote: Dean wrote: Everyone thinks they can manage better than their manager, that they can see the errors that their managers miss, we all think we can do our job better without management, we all have opinions on how our favourite sports team should be managed, how the economy should work, how the politicians should govern, how the president/prime minister should run the country. Every manager had that same opinion before they undertook the rôle.

I don't think I could manage better than most of the managers I've had.  I got fired from my first job at 21 for being a bad manager (in that I didn't really manage people; just left them alone) and have had no interest since then.  (Not that I was interested then!)  I will say I enjoy that my managers mostly just leave me alone to do my job, though.  I cannot be micromanaged.

Actually, I generally really appreciate my managers, because they eliminate obstacles that keep me from doing what I like to do and am good at doing.


Edited by infocat - February 02 2013 at 14:40

1. It is declared that all people have the right to a good education!

2. The politicians must now create the academic infrastructure.

3. The politicians collect taxes to make this happen.

4. Yet most politicians lack this field of expertise, so they must go elsewhere to make the dream of a good education for all a reality.

5.  They have, however, built schools and hired teachers.

6.  "Hello, I'm Dan CEO of Educational Software, Inc.  I can meet your needs!"

7.  The politicians give Dan two million dollars for a five-year license.

8.  Dan the CEO gets richer.

9.  The politicians get re-elected.

10.  The students can't read or write on grade level.

11.  The politicians raise taxes.

12.  Billy, CEO of Pedagogical Software, Inc. says, "I can meet your needs!"

13. The politicians give Billy five million dollars for a five-year license.

14. The politicians get re-elected.

15. The students can't read or write on grade level.

At the moment, looks like I'm going to get a pretty damn nice tax return.
This alone can be used to pay for my trip to California later this year, and means I can loosen my spending belt a little bit...
Thank god the government is nice enough to give me my money that they took from me

lolwut? Pat running for office?

rogerthat wrote: JJLehto wrote:  By using your logic we have to arrive at, well guess we are never. I do believe so.   Pure, unadulterated freedom is not only a myth, it is not compatible with the human condition.    To quote S Wonder's beautiful words: "The law was never passed/but somehow all men feel they're truly free at last/Have we really gone this far through space and time?" There is only a relative sense of freedom that we can grasp at and that is ultimately in the mind, whether we want to feel free or feel enslaved.   I take orders from somebody else at work but as I get better at it, he lets go more and more and allows me to take charge of proceedings so I essentially move on to taking orders from the next boss  and so on and so forth.   Like the overlords and the overminds from Arthur C Clarke's book.  If there's any one super-boss of the world, he is the President of United States and he has to listen to all of us.      I am still free to do with my money as I please, free to decide how I want to execute given tasks, what I want to eat for breakfast, lunch or dinner.  Why should I consider myself any more shackled than anybody else.

I agree!
Here's the thing, I've said this before....we got caught in the "idealism" because we can do that here...but I think most of us are pretty realistic. Don't think I am some rabid idealist. I have said many times, maybe most of it was before your time here, we need to make some type of limit on freedom, to have society. Yes, unadulterated freedom would be the state of nature, a la Hobbes' Leviathan, but no one advocates that. Even Equality Pat has said, we need laws, (at least to some extent).
So yes, pretty much I agree. But I think that's fine. I want freedom to be maximized but it would be insane and impossible to want 100%.

Also, to throw a bone, unlike others, I actually don't believe we live in a police state (seems like an injustice to true police states) and companies (or anyone really) can get as much info on you as they want, not just the government. We are relatively free, again seems wrong to compare ourselves to communist or fascist states.
Though I am a little disturbed by increasing big brother-ness.


Edited by JJLehto - February 04 2013 at 16:36

Equality 7-2521 wrote: JJLehto wrote: lolwut? Pat running for office? Fortunately no. PhD candidacy.

JJLehto wrote: Also, to throw a bone, unlike others, I actually don't believe we live in a police state (seems like an injustice to true police states) and companies (or anyone really) can get as much info on you as they want, not just the government. We are relatively free, again seems wrong to compare ourselves to communist or fascist states. Though I am a little disturbed by increasing big brother-ness.

As I said before, I don't think I am necessarily at a polar opposite extreme in any case because I don't like to take ideological positions.   Heaven knows my country has suffered enough at the hands of ideologues so I lost faith in ideology as a means of governance long since.  So I simply don't suggest something that sounds desirable as an ideal but which I feel is not practically feasible, that's the only major difference.    I feel less able to agree with extreme suggestions like no tax or no central bank but I generally support the withdrawal of govt from an activity that could be profitably carried on by entrepreneurs.   Our Finance Minister is going to table a revival package for a govt owned scooter making company (actually just three wheelers these days).  Ridiculous, I say....nobody wants to touch govt made retail products with a bargepole, 'revival' is just more money down the drain.  


Edited by rogerthat - February 05 2013 at 08:58

Equality 7-2521 wrote: JJLehto wrote: lolwut? Pat running for office? Fortunately no. PhD candidacy.

Well, that sounds absolutely awful

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Mathematics. I work in Homological Algebra and Algebraic Geometry.

Heterological algebra feels better and you don't need Equality for that.

Also, I'm curious as to what you guys think of the supposed tweet from Ron Paul about Chris Kyle's death.

Edited by horsewithteeth11 - February 05 2013 at 12:34