"Freedom" thread or something

Well that's just it MoM.
Speaking of madness, I always thought they should swear on the Constitution, not the (insert holy book) imagine the giant sh*t that would be flipped if this happened!

Ah but like I said, the "people are dumb" thing may be fair but don't we already elect the Pres and electors rarely ever go against the popular vote?
Eh I don't see how. Why did allowing direct election of Senators lead to the loss of states rights? I have to say it would've happened eventually.

on the note of structural changes...gerrymandering is pretty screwy. Parties either draw the lines to screw the other one, like Reps in Texas, or CA which draws them so no one ever loses (WTF) or NJ which draws them to maintain a balance...but there's of course no real competitive district. I think Iowa's big ol block system has worked pretty decently.


Edited by JJLehto - January 29 2013 at 18:51

The Doctor wrote: Finnforest wrote: JJLehto wrote: Finnforest wrote: I loathe gift cards.  How did we become so unimaginative?  If you have to give someone a piece of plastic cash as a gift, why are you bothering really?  It might be time to just shelve the gift giving thing. If you really have no idea what someone you love wants or needs, why not take them out to eat and give them a little time with yourself. Well I'll be honest....as kids everything was easy.  A comedian once said he did his christmas shopping at a dollar store. $30, 30 toys. Seems cheap? Hey all the kid knows is he has 30 toys and life is awesome. I'm 24, my brother is 21...a lot of the nostalgia and tv show like qualities are kinda gone. Basically, I dont want things man and what I do is hundreds of dollars. Some gift cards for chipotle and cheesecake factory or those generic debit card ones, really all I need. So people just exchange cards?  I give you a $30 card, you give me one.  I give Sis a card, she gives me one.  Why not just buy yourselves what you want then and skip the ritual?   I mean, is there really any pleasure in exchanging credit cards?  Gift cards are a way of saying "you're not really important enough to me for me to go through the hassle of figuring out what to buy you."

This is untrue.  I receive Guitar Center gift cards often.  This is quite simply because

1) They know I will find something useful there (in the very least, strings)
2) They wouldn't know where to begin with finding a particular item that would suit my needs (heck, even I don't know what I would want at a given moment- I'd have to research).

I would much rather receive a gift card than have my in-laws lovingly try to choose something for me.  The sentiment is nice, but if I can't use it, I can't use it.

Rob gets it
Edit: Yes, cash is of course best, and this is why we have grandparents, aunts and uncles and those famous semi distant relatives who pop up at holidays. It helps having a large ass Italian family


Yeah, Beck needs to chill out, complaining about Dodd?
My "representation" was Jon Corzine aka part of the government sachs merry go round, tough to get worse also Frank Lautenberg...that rich ass f**ker, and later Menendez famous for his deep role in corrupt Northern NJ politics

Nah, its a fair point MoM, but please help me, I seem to have contracted brain rot today. How precisely has it led to senators abandoning their states and being slaves to national and special interests. Couldn't this still happen?
I'm just curious, as of right now guess I'm not opposed or supportive of abolishing 17




Edited by JJLehto - January 29 2013 at 20:28

Negoba wrote: I won't pretend to know what libertarians think of themselves, but I certainly subscribe to the ideal that government shouldn't get involved unless there is a demonstrable need for it. We can disagree when that need occurs.

That seems to be the foundation, with, as you said, the details and debates being what exactly the line is

thellama73 wrote: Epignosis wrote: The Doctor wrote: Finnforest wrote: JJLehto wrote: Finnforest wrote: I loathe gift cards.  How did we become so unimaginative?  If you have to give someone a piece of plastic cash as a gift, why are you bothering really?  It might be time to just shelve the gift giving thing. If you really have no idea what someone you love wants or needs, why not take them out to eat and give them a little time with yourself. Well I'll be honest....as kids everything was easy.  A comedian once said he did his christmas shopping at a dollar store. $30, 30 toys. Seems cheap? Hey all the kid knows is he has 30 toys and life is awesome. I'm 24, my brother is 21...a lot of the nostalgia and tv show like qualities are kinda gone. Basically, I dont want things man and what I do is hundreds of dollars. Some gift cards for chipotle and cheesecake factory or those generic debit card ones, really all I need. So people just exchange cards?  I give you a $30 card, you give me one.  I give Sis a card, she gives me one.  Why not just buy yourselves what you want then and skip the ritual?   I mean, is there really any pleasure in exchanging credit cards?  Gift cards are a way of saying "you're not really important enough to me for me to go through the hassle of figuring out what to buy you." This is untrue.  I receive Guitar Center gift cards often.  This is quite simply because 1) They know I will find something useful there (in the very least, strings) 2) They wouldn't know where to begin with finding a particular item that would suit my needs (heck, even I don't know what I would want at a given moment- I'd have to research). I would much rather receive a gift card than have my in-laws lovingly try to choose something for me.  The sentiment is nice, but if I can't use it, I can't use it. But wouldn't you rather have cash? That way if you couldn't find something you need at guitar center, you could still use it for something else. Plus there's no bother with expirations and the other problems talked about before.

As I said, strings.  There's always strings.

Now, Logan, I've been poor.  I know it sounds ridiculous, but if I were given cash, I'd spend it on bills.  Sometimes, yes, I would rather have the cash, truth be told.

But has anyone ever handed you an envelope from under the tree that contained a card and a note that said, "I'll pay your next water bill!"

Epignosis wrote: As I said, strings.  There's always strings. Now, Logan, I've been poor.  I know it sounds ridiculous, but if I were given cash, I'd spend it on bills.  Sometimes, yes, I would rather have the cash, truth be told. But has anyone ever handed you an envelope from under the tree that contained a card and a note that said, "I'll pay your next water bill!"

Negoba wrote: I won't pretend to know what libertarians think of themselves, but I certainly subscribe to the ideal that government shouldn't get involved unless there is a demonstrable need for it. We can disagree when that need occurs.

Care to elaborate?

Negoba wrote: Care to elaborate?

By example, there's a need to alleviate wealth inequality which I believe that the market cannot sufficiently handle. I don't agree with the government getting involved because I find the necessary means of involvement to be wrong, the subsequent affect in the macro I believe to be negative for the alleviation of suffering of the poor, I think the process of a governmental solution will be symptom oriented and lead to destructive results, and other stuff that's less important so I won't list a bunch of other things because I think you get the idea and it would probably be more beneficial for you to ask a follow up rather than for me to keep extending this already long and tedious and all together too difficult to read sentence by filling it with a bunch of words which probably only alienate you from my point or bore you or are just all together ineffective and I don't want that at all so I'll just leave it at that and not add anything else.

So I might extend my statement to be "government should not get involved unless A) there is a demostrable need and B) the methods by which they plan to get involved are realistically going to improve the situation."