"Freedom" thread or something

Finnforest wrote: JJLehto wrote: Finnforest wrote: I loathe gift cards.  How did we become so unimaginative?  If you have to give someone a piece of plastic cash as a gift, why are you bothering really?  It might be time to just shelve the gift giving thing. If you really have no idea what someone you love wants or needs, why not take them out to eat and give them a little time with yourself. Well I'll be honest....as kids everything was easy.  A comedian once said he did his christmas shopping at a dollar store. $30, 30 toys. Seems cheap? Hey all the kid knows is he has 30 toys and life is awesome. I'm 24, my brother is 21...a lot of the nostalgia and tv show like qualities are kinda gone. Basically, I dont want things man and what I do is hundreds of dollars. Some gift cards for chipotle and cheesecake factory or those generic debit card ones, really all I need. So people just exchange cards?  I give you a $30 card, you give me one.  I give Sis a card, she gives me one.  Why not just buy yourselves what you want then and skip the ritual?   I mean, is there really any pleasure in exchanging credit cards?

Gift cards are a way of saying "you're not really important enough to me for me to go through the hassle of figuring out what to buy you."

The Doctor wrote: Gift cards are a way of saying "you're not really important enough to me for me to go through the hassle of figuring out what to buy you."

But this isn't "hey yeah I remember you, uh here you go" it's from family.
man all yall are a bunch of idealists!
I'm gunna go out on a limb and say my family loves me they can give me socks for all I care.
I walk a lot at my job, it'd be useful.

I'm sorry Brian I wasn't meaning to criticize your folks.  I wasn't actually talking about you.....but generally.  I guess I just feel that when the family grows up and moves into a phase where everyone is exchanging plastic cards, for me, that would be time to have a holiday talk and "hang it up".   Again, not talking about what you should do.

JJLehto wrote: hm..I'll be real here, there are many libertarians (and I'd say most of the fake Republican ones )are just pro business, and obviously lots of big government people are anti big business.

JJLehto wrote: The Doctor wrote: ^Dude, how long have I been posting here and you're just now figuring out I'm an idealist?   Well to be fair, I only remember you vaguely from the good l days (and I believe you had a rep (probably unfair) of being a misogynist and were banned for a while) OK that was harsh, you seem like a fine if not politically misguided fella Nah its cool Finn, just ya know, I cant expect much else. I really wish I didn't get anything but I have never been able to convince em of that

I was just a trouble-maker back then.  Like you lot are now.    Ok, I guess I'm still a bit of a trouble-maker, but now I accept boundaries. 

JJLehto wrote: Well that's just it. I'm talking ideally, but yeah many probably dont know, or don't wanna accept, they may pursue anti business policies that do the opposite. I mean look at Doc, and look at many liberals across the US. The anti big business/anti super wealthy mindset as well as "power to the people" are what they want, and just feed into a process that does the opposite of all that. But the Republicans are big business and pro millionaire, Democrats like the middle class and helping the people...right?? It will be sung until the country crashes

Well, not really.  I'll give you the first part, but would say the Democrats are almost as bad.  In fact, they're like one big corporatist party with different wings which disagree somewhat on social issues.  I'd love a party that liked the middle class and were all about helping the people. 

Nah, I got it. 

I agree with you there 100% on proportional representation and multiple legit parties.  I don't think it's a terrible idea at all, but I don't think it will happen either. 

Oh snap, we're building bridges all over this place.
Well yeah, that's why it wont happen King of Loss

How about the electoral college?

Ironically most libertarians seem opposed, but IDK. How much worse can it be?
This is just pure fantasy of course, some truly radical changes would be required for that.


Edited by JJLehto - January 29 2013 at 18:19

I'm opposed to the electoral college.  I think that when combined with the winner take all system, it subverts the democratic process.  If you're a Democrat in Texas or a Republican in New York, your vote is worth absolutely zero. 

How so Logan?  That's my problem with the electoral college. 



Edited by The Doctor - January 29 2013 at 18:23

Sweet Jesus Doc the agreement continues!
Also just from a debate point no argument has ever swayed me:
.Corruption will be easier. IDK seems easier to rig 1,000 votes in a Florida county than a national campaign of corruption
.Parties will try to take pro urban views to win by numbers. IDK if this holds up and the parties natural views already have an urban/rural split
.The people are too dumb. Eh whats the difference? We elect leaders already, why have the middle man that could in theory go against our will?
Also yeah, it's more democratic and representative. It would also be nice for elections to not be based on the close outcomes of 1-5 states every time


Edit: Nevermind llama agrees after all


Edited by JJLehto - January 29 2013 at 18:33