"Freedom" thread or something

I didn't say I wanted to stop employers from firing people, I was simply responding to Logan's assertion that corporations can do nothing to you.  Of course they can.  I'm just again pointing out that all power over other people does not necessarily come at the point of a gun as Logan likes to claim.  Corporations have power over people by their power not to buy or to stop buying (in the case of firing) and to not sell.  This would be ok if everyone had the same amount of bargaining and economic power, but obviously this is not the case, and that is why government is necessary to at least to some degree, even the playing field.  

Firing an employee or opting not to sell is not "doing something" to you. Anymore than you are "doing something" to a business if you quit or refuse to buy their services. It is simply declining to continue doing business together. It is not a positive action, it is inaction.

If you claim that not selling to you or not employing you is a means of exerting power, then you must also accept that YOU exert power every time you don't buy something. By not buying a loaf of bread at your local baker's you are exerting power over him. Employers and customers are the same thing. If you hire a barber to cut your hair, you are a customer. If you ire a barber to cut other people's hair, you are an employer. They are the same thing, and so every negative thing you say about employers must also apply to yourself as a customer. This is the point I want to get across.

Also, no one is arguing that there should be no police or no laws, so your concern there is without warrant.

Geoff, what gives the government the "right" to tax us? Where does that right come from?


Edited by thellama73 - January 24 2013 at 06:47

My power Logan is minimal compared to the power a company exerts over its employees.  For example, I will not buy Papa John's pizza, in part because I'm not a huge fan of their pizza anyway, and more importantly I think the owner is a huge (unprintable word).  I haven't exactly brought Papa Johns to its knees, now have I?  On the other hand, when a person is fired, it can really have a huge negative impact on that person's life.  Heck, some people commit suicide when they lose their job.  Think John Schattner is going to off himself because I refuse to buy his pizza? 

Your argument:

1. You cannot ruin Papa John's by refusing to order their pizza.
2. Papa John's can ruin a person by firing them.

(Then you make a twisted remark about being able to make someone kill himself, but I'll assume that isn't germane)

Somehow, you find an injustice between 1 & 2, yet you support big government.  I pointed out that government fires people all the time (thus, presumably ruining some of them), yet we are forced to buy their "products" or go to jail.

That's inconsistent on your part.

Thanks HTS.  I would have responded myself, but then I figured what's the point.  What I said was easily understandable, but MoM and to a lesser degree Rob decided to twist it into something it wasn't.  Says more about them than it does about me. 

Firing can be an abuse of power, but I wasn't saying it is always an abuse of power.  I was merely responding to Logan's assertion that I have power over corporations, by stating that corporations have a lot more power over individuals than individuals have over corporations.  Not all of that power is necessarily bad, but the original assertion that corporations can do nothing to an individual is fallacious. 

Also, companies only have that power because you have given it to them. It's better to generate more employment. Then there's more options for people to say "screw you" to employers and go somewhere eslse.

No Doc I'm sure you don't want to drive nobody to suicide though you're getting closer with some libertarians here

MoM, do you think liberty is the one value that has to preserved at all costs in a society? (if we agree that a "society" exists).

Edited by JJLehto - January 24 2013 at 10:21