Queen vs Black Sabbath

Argonaught wrote: Since the question is about the favorite band, not "which band did more for their genre at its early stages", it's kind of easy to decide in this one: Queen.  I don't know Black Sabbath well enough to competently review their career path, but my impression is that they are kind of like the Rolling Stones of heavy metal: stayed around for decades without ever drifting away from the '60's blues-based rock. Heavy metal doesn't do anything for me, unless it's explicitly symphy and free from inappropriate growling and musical instrument abuse.       Ozzie sure has a distinctive voice, along with an interesting personality, but frankly he can't be described as a uniquely talented vocalist. Freddy was one of a kind.  Queen also - in their productive period - showed some jaw-dropping musicianship, exquisite taste and quite a gusto for innovation. I don't believe that Black Sabbath ever were interested in any of these. I absolutely have to agree with you, Argonaught There are only a few vocalists that I like and Freddie's vocals were instrumental, among others, the vocalists I like are David Byron plus Daniel Gildenlow hig

Horizons wrote: I don't care for either really.  I guess i never really "got" them.

Kati wrote: Sumdeus wrote: Kati wrote: What does proto-prog stand for? Yes I am a nincompoop I know, sorry Well proto is a prefix that means first, when people write proto-something it usually means the first of it's kind or with things like proto-prog or proto-metal the kind of precursor, how the psychedelic rock of the late 60's was often proto-prog or bands like Deep Purple and Blue Cheer being a precursor to heavy metal   Thank you very much, Psychedelic Teddy Bear First, thus it means ground breaking

Edited by Gerinski - January 19 2013 at 22:27

Argonaugh wrote: Queen also - in their productive period - showed some jaw-dropping musicianship, exquisite taste and quite a gusto for innovation. I don't believe that Black Sabbath ever were interested in any of these.

Sabbath didn't innovate and didn't have great musicianship? give me a break. it would seem you are right in that you don't know Sabbath well enough. I realize you said you don't like heavy metal much but it's silly to ignore the significance Sabbath holds to the genre, along with creating foundations for multiple other styles of metal


Edited by Sumdeus - January 20 2013 at 04:32

are you seriously comparing Queen's impact on metal to Sabbath's? I'm at a loss for words. Queen have had some metal elements at times but their importance to metal is minimal compared to what Sabbath did.


Edited by Sumdeus - January 20 2013 at 05:16

Sumdeus wrote: are you seriously comparing Queen's impact on metal to Sabbath's? I'm at a loss for words. Queen have had some metal elements at times but their importance to metal is minimal compared to what Sabbath did.

Yup, I do.

Heavy metal was formed in late 60's in works by The Yardbirds/Led Zeppelin and King Crimson. So Sabbath didn't created a new genre, they just gave it a shape. And that was their merit.

And Queen were ground-breaking in creating and influencing on new metal genres. As I specified, it were NWOBHM, speed metal, thrash  metal, power metal and progressive metal. Dixi.

Contradictory arguments here:

ole-the-first wrote: Yup, I do. Heavy metal was formed in late 60's in works by The Yardbirds/Led Zeppelin and King Crimson. So Sabbath didn't created a new genre, they just gave it a shape. And that was their merit.

Of those bands, KC was the only one who wrote precisely one song that could be characrerized as metal before Sabbath and that is of course Schizoid.   Dazed and Confused may be heavy but it is not any more metal than In the Flesh.   Sabbath were not the first to come up with all the elements that make up metal - and no one band ever is - but they were the first metal band.  

ole-the-first wrote: And Queen were ground-breaking in creating and influencing on new metal genres. As I specified, it were NWOBHM, speed metal, thrash  metal, power metal and progressive metal. Dixi.

You'd surely have to acknowledge that Into the Void is not dispensable in the emergence of speed metal.   Likewise, In Rock is a very important  album for the development of speed metal.   Queen weren't in the picture at this point.  Thanks to Sabbath and DP, metal was a full fledged genre even before Queen had released their first album.   While Queen could write songs with elements of non-blues music with metal riffs, their approach was not immediately embraced in the 80s.    It was, again, JP who showed the way first and Iron Maiden and the rest of NWOBHM built on it.   Queen is an influence, no doubt, but a secondary one compared to Sabbath, DP, JP or even Scorpions or Van Halen (Roth and Michael Schenker hugely influenced metal lead guitar, need say nothing of Van Halen). 

I don't think the influence of songs like Ogre Battle or Stone Cold Crazy have ever been denied or dismissed in metal, but you are not going to find many takers for the theory that that influence amounts to something similar to Sabbath's influence on metal.    It is also irrelevant if Metallica covered Queen before Sabbath as that is just a happenstance.  The influence of Sabbath on their music is evident and it is evident in Slayer as well and even more so as we go to darker genres like death metal.   The essential sound of Queen is not very representative of metal and their influence on metal derives mainly from May's guitarwork and also (but more specifically in the case of power metal) their vocal harmonies.  

Sumdeus wrote: again, while Queen may have had some influence on metal their overall role in the genre is insignificant compared to actual metal bands... I'm still at a loss for words that someone would try to compare their influence to someone like Sabbath. you keep listing these genres, but Queen didn't create NWOBHM, nor speed metal, nor thrash, nor power, nor prog metal. They weren't even near the main foundation of those genres. Sabbath, on the other hand, pretty much were the first to play metal in the way they did which marked the line between hard rock and heavy metal, and also pretty much singlehandedly created other metal subgenres such as stoner metal and doom metal.

I love both bands, but Queen has to take this one.  They were just incredible and Freddie is imo the best vocalist ever.  Although, surprisingly, that video that was posted above for Too Much Love Will Kill You, I actually prefer the Brian May solo version with May singing the lead.  But then I didn't think Brian or Roger were slouches behind the mic either.