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The T View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 16:00
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:


Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Stewart is a buffoon one or two steps above Ed Schultz, Bill Maher, Lawrence O Donnell, or Chris Matthews, who are the 4 biggest dicks on TV imo.  An example of a genuinely nice pundit on the Left whom I respect greatly, because he is civil and because he actually knows something, is the wonderful Mark Shields.  I'd like to buy that man a drink.  I also like Clarence Page, a stand-up liberal who knows his stuff. 

It's exactly that kind of attitude that is why the right is losing elections.  Stewart and Colbert are a force to be reckoned with.  So go ahead and call them buffoons - I don't want your side to win anyways.  Wink
What, the attitude of not liking seeing news treated just as comedy? That is all news are for these people anyway, and sadly, for their audience. I won't say I don't find Stewart likable though, unlike Maher.

Comedians as standards of trustworthiness... Something's awkward there.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 16:02
You are another treating politics as team sports Geoff, constantly trying to "pwn" those who don't agree with you with polls and numbers and results of elections. Even when someone is ready to accept some things like I did in the guns issue you can't read straight because you have the team-mentality. Come on. Election results and poll results don't change principles or the truth.

Edited by The T - January 19 2013 at 16:15
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 16:57
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Stewart is a buffoon one or two steps above Ed Schultz, Bill Maher, Lawrence O Donnell, or Chris Matthews, who are the 4 biggest dicks on TV imo. 

An example of a genuinely nice pundit on the Left whom I respect greatly, because he is civil and because he actually knows something, is the wonderful Mark Shields.  I'd like to buy that man a drink.  I also like Clarence Page, a stand-up liberal who knows his stuff. 

It's exactly that kind of attitude that is why the right is losing elections.  Stewart and Colbert are a force to be reckoned with.  So go ahead and call them buffoons - I don't want your side to win anywaysWink



THAT is the kind of attitude why the country is so f**ked up.
Not only viewing the system as "sides" that one must win, but you have no idea how wrong that is.
You drink the kool aid that our "side" are Republicans. They are as big government as the Dems and IMO perhaps a bit more so.
The dems/reps and left/right are the same side you fool!



Edited by JJLehto - January 19 2013 at 16:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 18:36
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

You are another treating politics as team sports Geoff, constantly trying to "pwn" those who don't agree with you with polls and numbers and results of elections. Even when someone is ready to accept some things like I did in the guns issue you can't read straight because you have the team-mentality. Come on. Election results and poll results don't change principles or the truth.

As long as the left is the only side with any sense in their damn heads, you're damn right I'm gonna treat them like they're my team:
http://grist.org/politics/asymmetrical-polarization-the-lefts-gone-left-but-the-rights-gone-nuts/
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 18:40
^You're just another nut, just on the other side of those you criticize. You can't understand why that "team" mentality is criticized, so all more talk is irrelevant.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 18:58
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

^You're just another nut, just on the other side of those you criticize. You can't understand why that "team" mentality is criticized, so all more talk is irrelevant.

I'm a nut?  Because I'm not trying to start a war over taxes that are at historic lows?  Because I want my politicians to tell the truth behind policies rather than making up sensational stories?  Because I think Obama's health care bill might actually work?  And because, rather than being afraid of everything new, I'm willing to give new ideas that sound like they might work a chance?

When one side is so afraid of everything that they've been nicknamed the "party of no", and they wage war on all who disagree with them, then heck yes I'm rooting for the other side.  Call me crazy, I don't care.  I have my disagreements with the left, but they've proven to be far more reasonable on that side.  When the right gets ahold of a reasonable idea, they either reject it out of fear or take it to extremes and make it unreasonable.  Case in point about the left being reasonable:
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/bill-clinton-to-democrats-dont-trivialize-gun-culture-86443.html
The left has disagreements, but doesn't demonize.  And from what I've seen, the left hasn't been corrupted as much by the money of lobbyists:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/01/16/how-the-nra-influences-congress-in-6-charts/

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 19:12
"Tell the truth"? Democrats tell the truth? "New ideas"? What new ideas? And why would you paint those who don't agree with those supposedly "new ideas" as nuts even when you're quick to reject the accusation? Can someone disagree with you?

Anyway, that is irrelevant. You see two sides. You have been convinced by Ds and Rs that there are only two possible sides. As long as there are enough people like you, Rs and Ds will reign supreme being basically the same sh*t.

Also, plase define "the right". You seem to group together a lot of different ideologies that share little in common.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 19:54
By the way, taxes at historic lows? Both my girlfriend and I, each making under 40k a year, took less money last paycheck after the spike in taxes. Yes, tax those rich b*****ds! No tax increases for the middle class it seems. Yeah right. The only ones not affected by the "historic low" taxes? Those that can actually pay them, the rich ones.

Edited by The T - January 19 2013 at 20:50
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 21:29
Gosh, you just don't even know what you don't know.  If you had paid any attention to the news without a strong bias to the right, you would know - the conservative leaning side has gone crazy.  Absolutely nuts.  And I'd rather vote for a sane man that I disagree with than an insane man I agree with.  But it just so happens that once I woke up to the insanity, I realized "hey, I actually see a lot of sense in what the other side is saying...you know what, I agree with them on this issue...and that one...and this one too!"  As I've said, I still have some disagreements with the left.  But like I said - sane vs. insane.  Gonna go with the sane man I have some agreements with and some disagreements with vs. the foaming at the mouth lunatics who are ready to crash our economy in order to try to blame it on the President.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 23:40
You can't give any answer to my questions. You just continue saying "I woke up and saw insanity and I call it that because it is insane". Nothing else. You say they are insane because you say so. Yes, some opinions are actually insane, in all sides (there's more than two of them). But you haven't commented on anything I said. Links will not do. Most people don't read links (I stopped posting any looong ago).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 05:12

There is no single philosophy or single ideology that is the perfect solution because the perfect solution is unobtainable. Once you pick a side and adhere to it religiously your ability to think for yourself is lessened, we should not be that polarised or that partisan to accept everything from one side or reject everything from another side. This applies to all - nationalists, conservatives, libertarians, liberals, socialist, democtrats, republicans, monarchists, anarchists, left, right, centre - anyone who says 'this is right and that is wrong (and that's a fact)'

Everyone who posts here is intelligent - not because we have academic qualifications or job functions that prove that, or can pass aptitude tests with high scores, or can string together a coherent argument, or can post links to articles we've read - but because we can think - we can collate, rationalise and disseminate information that illustrates or explains a point of view. No one here is stupid or an idiot even if we say stupid or idiotic things from time to time, that is a natural consequence of being human - all humans do it.
 
If we do that by simply posting links that is fine, but remember that those are not your words or thoughts not matter how much you agree with them, all you are doing is presenting someone else's opinion, but often the full story is better than a carefully selected quote.
 
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 05:57
Here's a link.  I don't agree or not but I thought it interesting.
 
 
Make of it what you will. 
Help me I'm falling!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 07:09
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

You can't give any answer to my questions. You just continue saying "I woke up and saw insanity and I call it that because it is insane". Nothing else. You say they are insane because you say so. Yes, some opinions are actually insane, in all sides (there's more than two of them). But you haven't commented on anything I said. Links will not do. Most people don't read links (I stopped posting any looong ago).

Well, there is our problem.  I cannot explain the insanity I've seen in a short little paragraph as it took much more than that for me to see it.  So I have found well written articles that give glimpses, but you don't want to read them.  So...we are at an impasse.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 07:35
Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

Here's a link.  I don't agree or not but I thought it interesting.
 
 
Make of it what you will. 


Quote
The real reason the Second Amendment was ratified, and why it says "State" instead of "Country" (the Framers knew the difference - see the 10th Amendment), was to preserve the slave patrol militias in the southern states, which was necessary to get Virginia's vote.


The entire US Constitution does not once ever use the word "country."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 07:42
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by akamaisondufromage akamaisondufromage wrote:

Here's a link.  I don't agree or not but I thought it interesting.
 
 
Make of it what you will. 


Quote
The real reason the Second Amendment was ratified, and why it says "State" instead of "Country" (the Framers knew the difference - see the 10th Amendment), was to preserve the slave patrol militias in the southern states, which was necessary to get Virginia's vote.


The entire US Constitution does not once ever use the word "country."
Nor would it - it is referring to a union of states, not a country.
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 08:19
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Stewart is a buffoon one or two steps above Ed Schultz, Bill Maher, Lawrence O Donnell, or Chris Matthews, who are the 4 biggest dicks on TV imo. 

An example of a genuinely nice pundit on the Left whom I respect greatly, because he is civil and because he actually knows something, is the wonderful Mark Shields.  I'd like to buy that man a drink.  I also like Clarence Page, a stand-up liberal who knows his stuff. 

It's exactly that kind of attitude that is why the right is losing elections.  Stewart and Colbert are a force to be reckoned with.  So go ahead and call them buffoons - I don't want your side to win anyways.  Wink



You know Geoff, having thought about this, you so missed my point.  I find those 4 guys dicks not because of their opinions, but because of how they choose to treat others with their venom and smug name-calling, their cheap innuendo and their barely concealed accusations of evil. They are no different from Hannity.   I said I like the two other guys because they make their point without demonizing, without being abusive, and because of this, I'm willing to listen to them, and I might take their ideas to heart.  It's interesting what you took from that. 

I don't think this has anything to do with why "my side" lost, and thanks for assigning me a "side" by the way.  "My side" is a  bit more complicated than that.....this was a simple statement about pundits and their quality.    I agree Stewart is a force in terms of ratings and therefore influence but he is not some intellectual giant. 

You throw around labels like sane and insane, and other words that are not very nice, like they are candy.  You won't convert people to your ideas by insulting them first, something I tried to tell Slarti once long ago.  Understand that good people may simply believe that different ideas are better ones.   Approach them with civility and they may listen to you.  




...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 08:53
When you are really convinced that you are somewhat morally superior to other people because of your opinions, there's no reasoning or respect coming that way, since you have already assumed the other opinion to be less than worthy of any consideration.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 14:24
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:


You know Geoff, having thought about this, you so missed my point.  I find those 4 guys dicks not because of their opinions, but because of how they choose to treat others with their venom and smug name-calling, their cheap innuendo and their barely concealed accusations of evil.

Oh...my...god.  You really don't get it.  Stewart and Colbert are actually quite respectful of opinions they don't share...when they are talking with others who are also respectful.  Their "smug name-calling", "cheap innuendo" and "barely concealed accusations of evil" only come when they are ridiculing others for their extremism and hypocrisy.  The people who receive this treatment deserve much more than they are getting.


Edited by dtguitarfan - January 20 2013 at 14:24
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 14:27
Geoff....i wasn't talking about colbert and stewart being the dicks, please read closer....rather the other 4.  And if you think those 4 are not as I describe them, then  you have one sided vision.

You know I just watched a documentary on our old Senator Paul Wellstone, a great guy I supported.  To think the Dem party has went from guys like that to the venom of today is tragic.....and No, I don't give the R's a pass either....they do the same thing with incivility. 

Just think about it. 
...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 14:38
Originally posted by Finnforest Finnforest wrote:

Geoff....i wasn't talking about colbert and stewart being the dicks, please read closer....rather the other 4.  And if you think those 4 are not as I describe them, then  you have one sided vision.

You know I just watched a documentary on our old Senator Paul Wellstone, a great guy I supported.  To think the Dem party has went from guys like that to the venom of today is tragic.....and No, I don't give the R's a pass either....they do the same thing with incivility. 

Just think about it. 

Oh, I see.  You're right, I didn't realize that's what you were talking about.  I don't really know Ed Schultz, Lawrence O Donnell, or Chris Matthews, but I will say that while I often agree with Bill Maher and often find him funny, I rarely watch him because I also find him offensive and feel he is damaging the message.  So if the other three are like him, I can see why you would say that.  Still...I don't think Maher holds a candle to Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, or Bill O'Reilly....
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