stop the "Neo" prog label ? |
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 09:58 | ||
Only just
Not even the Queen speaks the Queen's English.
Abbreviations have sod all to do with anything, we abbreviate all the time it doesn't (Gahh! A concatenation - orf with 'is 'ead) negate the meaning of the word or phrase, must we say Synthesiser all the time when speaking of the electronic musical instrument, or Light amplification by stimulated emission radiation when referring to the light emitting diode used in Compact Disc and Digital Video Disc players? No - abbreviations are a convenient short-hand to make conversation a tad less tedious. Hip speak it is not.
You can debate as long as you like as to when the name Progressive Rock first became abrieviated to Prog Rock (certainly Johnny Rotten and his ilk called it that in 1977), but first you'd have to determine when we started calling it Progressive Rock - no two people can agree on that even. But the abrieviation exists and has done for quite some time, you can attempt to put the genie back into the bottle if you wish.
Neo Prog is an abbreviation for Neo Progressive Rock and it is the name of a subgenre of rock music, it is also not unique to here, the term is widely used.
Neither the word "Neo" nor the word "Progressive" are used in their adjective form, both are used as nouns - so it is simply a name, just as Elizabeth is just a name (Elizabeth no longer means "God's promise"). Neo Prog as a name does not mean that the music contained within is either New or Moving forward (or whatever adjectival meaning you are using).
Assuming that Progressive (n) Rock must be progressive (adj) is a common misconception - if that were true then practically eveything recorded after 1971 would fail the test.
Edited by Dean - January 19 2013 at 09:58 |
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What?
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13351 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 10:19 | ||
Amen!!!!
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 12:01 | ||
Not correct
Please don't mistake the adjective progressive with the proper name PROGRESSIVE ROCK
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 14:44 | ||
Me, I'd either drop it or move others into it. Flower Kings and Spock's Beard come to mind. Two Bands which never took off with me. I like some Marillion. Go figure.
On a side note, what the hell are Vangelis and Synergy still doing in prog-related? Edited by Slartibartfast - January 19 2013 at 14:51 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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lucas
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 06 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8138 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 14:54 | ||
^
strange when you know that Vangelis and Synergy are often associated with electronic music... |
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13627 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 15:08 | ||
I have summarised many of the points made here on the Revolutionise The Site thread in Improve The Site section, so please do contribute there
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 15:18 | ||
Not too strange when I read there was a debate regarding the inclusion of Tangerine Dream before I got here. I set a few things straight, but my Brain hurts. I'm just going to hang out away from you guys and bash two bricks together. Edited by Slartibartfast - January 19 2013 at 15:20 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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lucas
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 06 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 8138 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 15:23 | ||
yes, I remember that there were arguments against electronic music because it is not "rock"... |
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13627 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 15:25 | ||
There still are, believe me.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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awaken77
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 25 2008 Status: Offline Points: 374 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 15:34 | ||
I consider "neo-prog" only original bands from beginning of 80-thies (Marillion, Pendragon, IQ, etc)
The rest of the crowd should be called neo-retro-prog, or post-neo-prog, whatever... all these names are just marketing cliches to give a hint to prospective record buyers, don't take it too seriously Many cliches are very artificial - for example journalists (who probably never listened the record) related both Black Widow and Black Sabbath to "satanic heavy metal" , because of the name of the band(s) !!!
Edited by awaken77 - January 19 2013 at 15:38 |
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Near York UK Status: Offline Points: 7024 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:35 | ||
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Hercules
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Near York UK Status: Offline Points: 7024 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:42 | ||
Grendel is NOT like Supper's Ready. Not at all.
The mood, the structure, the lyrics are as different as they could be. OK, there a passage in 9/8 and they're roughly the same length - that's the similarity and nothing else.
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A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:43 | ||
When you get to the idea of influenced by let us know,
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What?
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rdtprog
Special Collaborator Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams Joined: April 04 2009 Location: Mtl, QC Status: Offline Points: 5285 |
Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:50 | ||
At least you admit that i am right for about 3 minutes at the end of that song! |
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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.
Emile M. Cioran |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 28029 |
Posted: January 20 2013 at 03:17 | ||
All completely off topic of course.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: January 20 2013 at 04:15 | ||
Having a few artists in "the wrong category" doesn't do any harm, it just reflects the diversity of opinion on the various styles of music that we regard as being Progressive Rock, few artists adopt one single style of music and stick to it throughout their musical career. Even a band like Status Quo, who many regard as a one-trick pony, ventured beyond 12-bar blues and so it is with most (if not all) Prog bands.
The aim should be the best fit, not the exact fit and often close enough is good enough.
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What?
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lazland
Prog Reviewer Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13627 |
Posted: January 20 2013 at 05:08 | ||
And that is a perfectly reasonable, sensible, and pragmatic statement, and I would not argue with a single word. Following on from this, then, is it not the case that teams should be a little bit more open to variations from their strict interpretation of the various styles, and also react positively to positive and open suggestions and criticisms when there are disagreements about additions? I would rather this than being shouted at and told to mind my own bloody business, as has happened on more than a few occasions. As I said in the other thread, the sub-genres form an important resource of the site as a whole, not individual empires. This, btw, also, IMO, supports my view that artists should be added to the site where we agree it/they are prog, and argue about the semantics of styles afterwards.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14110 |
Posted: January 20 2013 at 05:42 | ||
To stay off-topis, can we suggest Vangelis for Xover? And now
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
Posted: January 20 2013 at 07:20 | ||
Nail meet hammer. |
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Slaughternalia
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 17 2011 Status: Offline Points: 901 |
Posted: January 20 2013 at 10:08 | ||
It's a label that describes a group of bands with reasonable accuracy, and it's here to stay, whether the artists like it or not. Philip Glass claims not to be a minimalist composer, but it doesn't change the fact that he clearly is one. And how many math rock bands actually label themselves as such?
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I'm so mad that you enjoy a certain combination of noises that I don't
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