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Dean View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 09:58
Originally posted by Roxbrough Roxbrough wrote:

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Adjectives and Nouns.
 
Progressive Rock (n) vs. progressive (adj)
Neo Prog (n) vs neo (adj)
Symphonic Prog (n) vs symphonic (adj)
Eclectic Prog (n) vs eclectic (adj)
Heavy Prog (n) vs heavy (adj)
 
Ready whenever you are. Tongue
 
Neo Prog is not a noun it is a noun and an abbreviation fused together and does not mean anything in the Queen's English.
When Progressive music first arrived on the scene the average listener would never have dreamed of calling it 'prog'.
Next it will be alleged that music is too long a noun and we should all call it 'Mu'!
The great thing about loving 'Progressive music' was that it was considered 'high brow' and music for universites, I would like to suggest we do not ruin that image with 'hip speak'.
 
 
 
Just an opinion gentlemen and ladies.
Only just Tongue
 
Not even the Queen speaks the Queen's English.
 
Abbreviations have sod all to do with anything, we abbreviate all the time it doesn't (Gahh! A concatenation - orf with 'is 'ead) negate the meaning of the word or phrase, must we say Synthesiser all the time when speaking of the electronic musical instrument, or Light amplification by stimulated emission radiation when referring to the light emitting diode used in Compact Disc and Digital Video Disc players? No - abbreviations are a convenient short-hand to make conversation a tad less tedious. Hip speak it is not.
 
You can debate as long as you like as to when the name Progressive Rock first became abrieviated to Prog Rock (certainly Johnny Rotten and his ilk called it that in 1977), but first you'd have to determine when we started calling it Progressive Rock - no two people can agree on that even. But the abrieviation exists and has done for quite some time, you can attempt to put the genie back into the bottle if you wish.
 
Neo Prog is an abbreviation for Neo Progressive Rock and it is the name of a subgenre of rock music, it is also not unique to here, the term is widely used.
 
Neither the word "Neo" nor the word "Progressive" are used in their adjective form, both are used as nouns - so it is simply a name,  just as Elizabeth is just a name (Elizabeth no longer means "God's promise"). Neo Prog as a name does not mean that the music contained within is either New or Moving forward (or whatever adjectival meaning you are using).
 
Assuming that Progressive (n) Rock must be progressive (adj) is a common misconception - if that were true then practically eveything recorded after 1971 would fail the test.
 
 


Edited by Dean - January 19 2013 at 09:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 10:19
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

I don't care much for labels really, and I'm not a huge fan of so called 'neo-prog' but in its defence it is arguably more 'progressive' than acts that sought to sound like the bands of old through use of mellotrons etc. The neo bands of the 80's were using the technology of the day to re-interpret and re-invent prog rock, just as the classic prog bands used the technology of the day to re-interpret and re-invent rock music.

I guess the post neo prog bands who aimed to get back to that old sound are closer to being tribute acts. Specifically paying tribute to a time in music history, rather than paying tribute to specific bands. That's not to say they weren't writing good and worthy music.

This is why I have some sympathy for the view that bands like Radiohead are truly progressive, and are representative of where progressive rock is now. People don't have to like it, it's just how it is, in my humble opinion.

Amen!!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 12:01
Originally posted by Roxbrough Roxbrough wrote:

If we all own up, Progressive is not the right tag for what we listen to now anyway. It is meant to indicate 'progress' and taste wise we all really hanker for a certain 'formula'. Punk was more progressive than progressive music when it arrived, but I doubt  many of us on here prefered it.
We would all be better of finding a new tag if we simply MUST have one.
I propose we all think of what we like as 'Intricate music'.
 
 
Get ready, ha ha ha

Not correct

Quote "It is music that does progress. It takes an idea and developes it, rather than just repeat it. Pop songs are about repetition and riffs and simplicity. Progressive music takes a riff, turns it inside out, plays it upside down and the other way around, and explores its potential."


Keith Emerson[1]



[1] A review of Rocking the Clasics English Progressive Rock and the Counterculture, by Edward Macan .por Mark S. Spicer

 

Please don't mistake the adjective progressive with the proper name PROGRESSIVE ROCK
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 14:44
Me, I'd either drop it or move others into it. Flower Kings and Spock's Beard come to mind.  Two Bands which never took off with me.  I like some Marillion.  Go figure. Big smile

On a side note, what the hell are Vangelis and Synergy still doing in prog-related? LOL


Edited by Slartibartfast - January 19 2013 at 14:51
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 14:54
^
strange when you know that Vangelis and Synergy are often associated with electronic music...
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 15:08
I have summarised many of the points made here on the Revolutionise The Site thread in Improve The Site section, so please do contribute thereSmile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 15:18
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

^
strange when you know that Vangelis and Synergy are often associated with electronic music...

Not too strange when I read there was a debate regarding the inclusion of Tangerine Dream before I got here. LOL
I set a few things straight, but my Brain hurts.  I'm just going to hang out away from you guys and bash two bricks together.


Edited by Slartibartfast - January 19 2013 at 15:20
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 15:23
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

^
strange when you know that Vangelis and Synergy are often associated with electronic music...

Not too strange when I read there was a debate regarding the inclusion of Tangerine Dream before I got here. LOL

yes, I remember that there were arguments against electronic music because it is not "rock"...
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 15:25
Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Originally posted by lucas lucas wrote:

^
strange when you know that Vangelis and Synergy are often associated with electronic music...

Not too strange when I read there was a debate regarding the inclusion of Tangerine Dream before I got here. LOL

yes, I remember that there were arguments against electronic music because it is not "rock"...

There still are, believe me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 15:34
I consider "neo-prog" only original bands from beginning of 80-thies (Marillion, Pendragon, IQ, etc)
The rest of the crowd should be called neo-retro-prog, or post-neo-prog, whatever...  all these names are just marketing cliches to give a hint to prospective record buyers, don't take it too seriously 

Many cliches are very artificial - for example journalists (who probably never listened the record) related both Black Widow and Black Sabbath to "satanic heavy metal" , because of the name of the band(s)  !!!  


Edited by awaken77 - January 19 2013 at 15:38
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:35
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by brainstormer brainstormer wrote:

"Neo"  just means new.  It doesn't mean "psuedo."  Maybe
some people are confusing this.
 The connection between Harvest Of Souls and Suppers Ready is very obvious 
No - it isn't. Not even slightly. I played both to my stepson (a musician) and he laughed at the assertion that they were even remotely similar.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:42
Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

The closer a band came to make a Supper's Ready copy is Marillion with "Grendel"
 
Grendel is NOT like Supper's Ready. Not at all.
 
The mood, the structure, the lyrics are as different as they could be. OK, there a passage in 9/8 and they're roughly the same length - that's the similarity and nothing else.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:43
When you get to the idea of influenced by let us know,
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 19 2013 at 17:50
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by rdtprog rdtprog wrote:

The closer a band came to make a Supper's Ready copy is Marillion with "Grendel"
 
Grendel is NOT like Supper's Ready. Not at all.
 
The mood, the structure, the lyrics are as different as they could be. OK, there a passage in 9/8 and they're roughly the same length - that's the similarity and nothing else.


At least you admit that i am right for about 3 minutes at the end of that song!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 03:17
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Me, I'd either drop it or move others into it. Flower Kings and Spock's Beard come to mind.  Two Bands which never took off with me.  I like some Marillion.  Go figure. Big smile

On a side note, what the hell are Vangelis and Synergy still doing in prog-related? LOL
apparently Vangelis was included the electronic prog sub genre at first but then was removed. Some people don't realise that Vangelis had a solo career before he started using synths in 1975. If you take his music only for the period 1975 onwards then he is electronic prog but when you factor in the earlier albums (Earth , Hypothesis, The Dragon etc) its trickier.
All completely off topic of course.Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 04:15
Having a few artists in "the wrong category" doesn't do any harm, it just reflects the diversity of opinion on the various styles of music that we regard as being Progressive Rock, few artists adopt one single style of music and stick to it throughout their musical career. Even a band like Status Quo, who many regard as a one-trick pony, ventured beyond 12-bar blues and so it is with most (if not all) Prog bands.
 
The aim should be the best fit, not the exact fit and often close enough is good enough.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 05:08
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Having a few artists in "the wrong category" doesn't do any harm, it just reflects the diversity of opinion on the various styles of music that we regard as being Progressive Rock, few artists adopt one single style of music and stick to it throughout their musical career. Even a band like Status Quo, who many regard as a one-trick pony, ventured beyond 12-bar blues and so it is with most (if not all) Prog bands.
 
The aim should be the best fit, not the exact fit and often close enough is good enough.

And that is a perfectly reasonable, sensible, and pragmatic statement, and I would not argue with a single word.

Following on from this, then, is it not the case that teams should be a little bit more open to variations from their strict interpretation of the various styles, and also react positively to positive and open suggestions and criticisms when there are disagreements about additions? I would rather this than being shouted at and told to mind my own bloody business, as has happened on more than a few occasions. As I said in the other thread, the sub-genres form an important resource of the site as a whole, not individual empires.

This, btw, also, IMO, supports my view that artists should be added to the site where we agree it/they are prog, and argue about the semantics of styles afterwards.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 05:42
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Me, I'd either drop it or move others into it. Flower Kings and Spock's Beard come to mind.  Two Bands which never took off with me.  I like some Marillion.  Go figure. Big smile

On a side note, what the hell are Vangelis and Synergy still doing in prog-related? LOL
apparently Vangelis was included the electronic prog sub genre at first but then was removed. Some people don't realise that Vangelis had a solo career before he started using synths in 1975. If you take his music only for the period 1975 onwards then he is electronic prog but when you factor in the earlier albums (Earth , Hypothesis, The Dragon etc) its trickier.
All completely off topic of course.Big smile
To stay off-topis, can we suggest Vangelis for Xover? And now Back to topic
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 07:20
Originally posted by lazland lazland wrote:


Following on from this, then, is it not the case that teams should be a little bit more open to variations from their strict interpretation of the various styles, and also react positively to positive and open suggestions and criticisms when there are disagreements about additions? I would rather this than being shouted at and told to mind my own bloody business, as has happened on more than a few occasions. As I said in the other thread, the sub-genres form an important resource of the site as a whole, not individual empires.

This, btw, also, IMO, supports my view that artists should be added to the site where we agree it/they are prog, and argue about the semantics of styles afterwards.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2013 at 10:08
It's a label that describes a group of bands with reasonable accuracy, and it's here to stay, whether the artists like it or not. Philip Glass claims not to be a minimalist composer, but it doesn't change the fact that he clearly is one. And how many math rock bands actually label themselves as such?
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