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Neon Eyes 
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 15 2013
Location: Croatia
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Points: 13
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 Posted: January 16 2013 at 18:35 |
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Whole lyrical concept on "The Edge" album by Eternity X is brutal, IMHO. So controversial...so deep...so realistic, in a scary way!
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Surrealist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 12 2012
Location: Squonk
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Points: 232
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Posted: January 17 2013 at 01:21 |
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Zappa must be the most Controversial Lyricist.
Zappa, love him or loath him, he was a genius beyond many.
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Josef_K
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2011
Location: Stockholm
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Points: 147
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Posted: January 17 2013 at 06:26 |
 Surrealist wrote:
Zappa must be the most Controversial Lyricist.
Zappa, love him or loath him, he was a genius beyond many.
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I haven't heard too much of his material and I didn't really like the little I've heard, but I think I agree with you. He really must be if not the most then at least one of the top controversial lyricists in prog.
Other than that, I love the lyrics of Jon Anderson, Peter Gabriel, Roger Waters, Peter Hammill and Pete Sinfield (while in Crimson). Never been a fan of Peart, as has been said on here before I think he describes things in a plain boring way and doesn't really give me the feeling that there's anymore to it than what you see at first glance. What I like about Jon Anderson is that he's the complete opposite. You have no idea of what he's talking about most of the time, but you (at least me) know from the start that there's a whole new world to discover inside these lyrics.
Learning to appreciate some of Peter Hammills lyrics was a bit hard, I liked most of it from the start but some things like singing "weeeee neeed love, weee need love, weee need love" in "Killer" still feels very unnecessary imo. However he has managed to write the #1 relatable song for me, "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers", among lots of other great ones. So he remains one of my favorites lyrically, just as VdGG do musically.
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Leave the past to burn,
At least that's been his own
- Peter Hammill
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: January 17 2013 at 06:39 |
How are Zappa's lyrics controversial?
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What?
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Josef_K
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2011
Location: Stockholm
Status: Offline
Points: 147
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Posted: January 17 2013 at 08:58 |
Dean wrote:
How are Zappa's lyrics controversial? |
As I said above I am hardly an expert on the guy, but my not-so-developed opinion on him is that his dadaistic-ish humour is very much "either you love it or you hate it". My feelings are summed up more by the latter...
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Leave the past to burn,
At least that's been his own
- Peter Hammill
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: January 17 2013 at 09:06 |
Josef_K wrote:
Dean wrote:
How are Zappa's lyrics controversial? |
As I said above I am hardly an expert on the guy, but my not-so-developed opinion on him is that his dadaistic-ish humour is very much "either you love it or you hate it". My feelings are summed up more by the latter... |
But that doesn't make it controversial - I don't see how (for example) advising people not to eat yellow snow is controversial, it seems like very sound advice to me. IMO his most controversial lyrics are on Jazz From Hell.
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What?
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Josef_K
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 15 2011
Location: Stockholm
Status: Offline
Points: 147
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Posted: January 17 2013 at 09:25 |
Dean wrote:
Josef_K wrote:
Dean wrote:
How are Zappa's lyrics controversial? |
As I said above I am hardly an expert on the guy, but my not-so-developed opinion on him is that his dadaistic-ish humour is very much "either you love it or you hate it". My feelings are summed up more by the latter... |
But that doesn't make it controversial - I don't see how (for example) advising people not to eat yellow snow is controversial, it seems like very sound advice to me. IMO his most controversial lyrics are on Jazz From Hell. |
Well it's not necessarily politically controversial or whatever, but in my opinion such "extreme" humour if you like is as I said very much "love it or hate it". This causes (or could/should cause) wide debate between people with different tastes. Maybe I am interpreting the term incorrectly but that sounds kinda controversial imo.
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Leave the past to burn,
At least that's been his own
- Peter Hammill
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: January 17 2013 at 09:39 |
Josef_K wrote:
Dean wrote:
Josef_K wrote:
Dean wrote:
How are Zappa's lyrics controversial? |
As I said above I am hardly an expert on the guy, but my not-so-developed opinion on him is that his dadaistic-ish humour is very much "either you love it or you hate it". My feelings are summed up more by the latter... |
But that doesn't make it controversial - I don't see how (for example) advising people not to eat yellow snow is controversial, it seems like very sound advice to me. IMO his most controversial lyrics are on Jazz From Hell. |
Well it's not necessarily politically controversial or whatever, but in my opinion such "extreme" humour if you like is as I said very much "love it or hate it". This causes (or could/should cause) wide debate between people with different tastes. Maybe I am interpreting the term incorrectly but that sounds kinda controversial imo. |
Maybe I'm not sensitive to extreme humour, but I don't find it to be either extreme or controversial. Taste, in "love it or hate it", is not controversial even if it is deliberately written to be controversial (as in Jewish Princess perhaps maybe). Scatalogical and sexist (or not... if it is being ironically sexist) humour isn't controversial.
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verslibre
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2004
Location: CA
Status: Offline
Points: 17068
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Posted: January 18 2013 at 14:44 |
Neon Eyes wrote:
Whole lyrical concept on "The Edge" album by Eternity X is brutal, IMHO. So controversial...so deep...so realistic, in a scary way!
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Rare defunct band mention! I still own and enjoy that final album by one of the (IMO) better progressive metal bands of the '90s. "The Edge, Part III: Existence" was the song that hooked me. The album right before it, Mind Games, is also very good. Too bad things fell apart when they were at their peak.
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scrivener
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 07 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 27
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 21:29 |
Zappa is certainly controversial as a lyricist; not many of the other names mentioned in these eight pages testified in front of the U.S. Congress in order to discuss his freedom to write them or others' freedom to hear them.
But my vote goes to Neal Morse. The others who chimed in on him were clearly disdainful of his lyrics and beliefs. I'm in the other camp: I find them uplifting and moving. If we all agreed with the original nominator, there'd be no controversy. Neal's lyrics basically led to the end of Spock's Beard as we knew it.
Which brings me to Kerry Livgren. Kansas was at the height of its commercial success when the increasing spirituality of his lyrics made Steve Walsh leave the band. It wasn't too long before Livgren's shifting priorities led to his leaving the band too, and what's Kansas without Livgren and Walsh? Kansas has never been anything close to as good.
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Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man. --- Francis Bacon
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 22:13 |
Most Most Controversial of all for me where the Beatles. i.e. Why Don't We Do It In The Road?, Happiness Is A Warm Gun, Piggies. We all live in a Yellow Submarine and so SO many more. 
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Luna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 28 2010
Location: Funky Town
Status: Offline
Points: 12794
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 22:22 |
Kati wrote:
Most Most Controversial of all for me where the Beatles. i.e. Why Don't We Do It In The Road?, Happiness Is A Warm Gun, Piggies. We all live in a Yellow Submarine and so SO many more. |
SHE WAS JUST SEVENTEEN YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN
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H_To_He
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 19 2013
Location: Cygnus X-1
Status: Offline
Points: 12
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 22:24 |
Ian Anderson would be a very controversial lyricist if people actually took the time to think about some of the stuff he's saying. There's a lot of f*cked-up sh*t in Jethro Tull songs! Of course, part of his brilliance is the way in which he buries aforementioned f*cked-up sh*t in layers of irony, symbolism and copious amounts of rockin' flute. 
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: January 19 2013 at 22:24 |
SolarLuna96 wrote:
Kati wrote:
Most Most Controversial of all for me where the Beatles. i.e. Why Don't We Do It In The Road?, Happiness Is A Warm Gun, Piggies. We all live in a Yellow Submarine and so SO many more. |
SHE WAS JUST SEVENTEEN YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN |
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 02:48 |
scrivener wrote:
Zappa is certainly controversial as a lyricist; not many of the other names mentioned in these eight pages testified in front of the U.S. Congress in order to discuss his freedom to write them or others' freedom to hear them. |
Using potty words and writing songs about sex are not controversial, they just offend prigs like Tipper Gore.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65246
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 03:01 |
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prog has no controversial lyricists, and it doesn't groove either, that's why it died and why we love it
okay- Robert Wyatt
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scrivener
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 07 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 27
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 03:04 |
Dean wrote:
Using potty words and writing songs about sex are not controversial, they just offend prigs like Tipper Gore. |
On the contrary, the fact that "prigs like Tipper" were offended is what makes the lyrics controversial. Controversy can be spurred by any topic if the offended parties are vocal enough, powerful enough, or influential enough. A lyricist could write lines about any topic at all, and no matter what the subject matter (or language), if nobody takes offense and nobody takes the opposing viewpoint, there is no controversy.
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Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man. --- Francis Bacon
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 05:17 |
scrivener wrote:
Dean wrote:
Using potty words and writing songs about sex are not controversial, they just offend prigs like Tipper Gore. |
On the contrary, the fact that "prigs like Tipper" were offended is what makes the lyrics controversial. Controversy can be spurred by any topic if the offended parties are vocal enough, powerful enough, or influential enough. A lyricist could write lines about any topic at all, and no matter what the subject matter (or language), if nobody takes offense and nobody takes the opposing viewpoint, there is no controversy. |
Everything will offend someone. Britney Spears requesting her paramour to asault her again in a song while dressed as a schoolgirl is offensive to some.
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What?
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011
Location: internet
Status: Offline
Points: 2549
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Posted: January 20 2013 at 13:13 |
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How are we defining "offensive"? As I pointed out (and debate) earlier in the thread I think that the trivialized and perverted sexual content in much of pop/rock music is harming our culture, and our youth in particular. That doesn't mean it offends me personally.
Is there a difference between being outraged and being offended?
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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scrivener
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 07 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 27
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Posted: January 21 2013 at 01:46 |
Dean wrote:
scrivener wrote:
Dean wrote:
Using potty words and writing songs about sex are not controversial, they just offend prigs like Tipper Gore. |
On the contrary, the fact that "prigs like Tipper" were offended is what makes the lyrics controversial. Controversy can be spurred by any topic if the offended parties are vocal enough, powerful enough, or influential enough. A lyricist could write lines about any topic at all, and no matter what the subject matter (or language), if nobody takes offense and nobody takes the opposing viewpoint, there is no controversy. |
Everything will offend someone. Britney Spears requesting her paramour to asault her again in a song while dressed as a schoolgirl is offensive to some. |
Right. But the title of this thread is not "Prog's Most Offensive Lyricist." I'm not saying that the fact that someone is offended by naughty words makes lyrics offensive. I'm saying that when a big deal is made about lyrics in certain communities (however you want to define that), if the issue is polarizing, it becomes controversy.
If I'm offended by Britney Spears' lyrics, there's no controversy, because that's just one guy who's offended. And again, offense does not equal controversy.
There are places where abortion is not a controversial issue at all: the overwhelming majority of people in certain communities is against it, so there's no controversy. In other communities, the overwhelming majority of people supports abortion rights, so again there is no controversy. But I belong to two listervs (both of them music-themed) where the moderators have put into place rules about discussing it, because the issue itself is so divisive and because nobody's mind is ever changed by further discussion. In those communities, abortion is controversial.
I'd be willing to bet that Zappa's lyrics in the ProgArchives forums are not controversial; at least not nearly as polarizing as Neal Morse's. But in the larger community (the United States), for a while they were the topic of headlines, television news coverage, and huge discussion about whether or not labeling CDs was a form of censorship. That makes it controversy, don't you think?
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Reading maketh a full man; conference a ready man; and writing an exact man. --- Francis Bacon
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