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progbethyname 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7849
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 Posted: December 27 2012 at 21:55 |
 moshkito wrote:
Hi,
I'm starting to think that this discussion is offensive.
IF you consider the music "progressive", then the singer is an extension of the work, and therefore a part of it ... you either look at it as a WHOLE PIECE of art, or you are NOT considering this music "progressive", but you are comparing it to just another pop song out there that has to show off some sexy this or that for you to consider purchasing it. .... that was progressive in the days of sweet Marilyn in Playboy or a few others at the time, but is now ... a stupid discussion.
If all you are doing ... is comparing it to your favorite songs ... or favorite ideals ... or wether you like sex or not ... or if someone has the right to yakk about sex or not ... that is NOT about "progressive" anything, except your ego ... and your opinions of what you like, and don't like.
As a "concept", please define things for yourself first, before deciding to criticize others ... LaBrie's voice is a part of the whole that makes DT what they are ... and if you don't like it ... too bad ... they don't need you, or your opinion! ... they got their money and fame already! And while you have the right to your opinions, if you think you have a better idea of what LaBrie is or is not to be doing, why don't you submit your own CV and maybe they will consider it?
"Prog" or "progressive" is not about the lyrics, or the subject or your own ideas ... it is about a bit more than that. Please give it the respect, and CARE, that it deserves! |
It's more about the the lyric content (subject matter) not the art of the music itself. Don't confuse the two, but I hear and see what you are driving at, especially in relation to 'Labrie's voice.' I don't know how many dip sh*ts have gone on about how bad LaBrie is. I say, at least respect the art of it even though it's sOmething entirely different that you are used to or can Handel on a music level. Anyway. Point taken. Oh and I am sick of close minded people like that. :(
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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geneyesontle
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 14 2012
Location: Quebec
Status: Offline
Points: 1266
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Posted: January 12 2013 at 14:51 |
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Frank Zappa.
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Poseidon wants to Acquire the Taste of the Fragile Lamb
- Derek Adrian Gabriel Anderson, singer of the band Geneyesontle
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themightymasturbator
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 13 2013
Location: Derpleton
Status: Offline
Points: 7
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Posted: January 13 2013 at 14:13 |
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I always thought John Petrucci's lyrics sucked balls. There's a fine line between saying things how they are, and just putting an incoherent story into rhyme with a couple of cliches thrown in.
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011
Location: internet
Status: Offline
Points: 2549
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Posted: January 13 2013 at 15:26 |
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^You should probably change your username.
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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themightymasturbator
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 13 2013
Location: Derpleton
Status: Offline
Points: 7
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Posted: January 13 2013 at 15:50 |
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Why?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: January 13 2013 at 15:52 |
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Because I say so.
Edited by Dean - January 13 2013 at 18:34
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What?
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011
Location: internet
Status: Offline
Points: 2549
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Posted: January 13 2013 at 15:55 |
themightymasturbator wrote:
Why? |
Do you really want to be known by that name for your entire time on the site? You find it funny now, but it will become really embarassing eventually. I have very few social scruples, nor do I advocate censorship; I'm speaking with your best interest in mind.
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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themightymasturbator
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 13 2013
Location: Derpleton
Status: Offline
Points: 7
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Posted: January 13 2013 at 16:08 |
I would personally have no problem with that :L The only reason I picked the name is because it is one of my favourite songs, in my opinion it's no different than someone's name being 2112 or The Count of Tuscany.
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011
Location: internet
Status: Offline
Points: 2549
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Posted: January 13 2013 at 16:55 |
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Don't know the song. Zappa, I presume?
Anyway, if that's the way you like it, it's your right to have it, as long as the site authorities are okay with it.
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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A Person
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 10 2008
Location: __
Status: Offline
Points: 65760
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Posted: January 13 2013 at 17:12 |
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I think it's a Devin Townsend song.
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 08 2012
Location: Pacoima,CA,USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3145
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Posted: January 13 2013 at 17:56 |
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Pete Sinfield
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“War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.”
― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four
"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011
Location: internet
Status: Offline
Points: 2549
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Posted: January 13 2013 at 20:05 |
A Person wrote:
I think it's a Devin Townsend song.
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That makes sense, too  . ^TMM: since I got distracted by my perceived inadvisability of your username and neglected to respond to your actual post, I will do so now - what JP lyrics are you talking about? I would agree with you if we're talking about the stuff on BC&SL (and a lot of the stuff after Metropolis, actually) but I feel like his lyrics on the early albums and on their latest album are much better; they're more poetic with less silly cliches and they seem to flow a lot better.
Edited by Ambient Hurricanes - January 13 2013 at 20:09
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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themightymasturbator
Forum Newbie
Joined: January 13 2013
Location: Derpleton
Status: Offline
Points: 7
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Posted: January 14 2013 at 14:09 |
Yeah BC&SL was some of his worst stuff, and just his lyrics in general (particularly after Metropolis like you said) irritate me.
And yes, it is a Devin Townsend song :D
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17511
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Posted: January 14 2013 at 14:45 |
javier0889 wrote:
Mirror Image wrote:
What about Damo Suzuki from Can? |
Most of Suzuki's work with Can was motivated by drugs, or it was a part of a "psychedelic jam" thing. When you keep this in mind a lof of things created between 1965 and today would be "controversial". I don't have any problem with Suzuki and or Can.
...
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Actually that would be incorrect. What Damo did on stage with music, was actually the very same thing that many experimental theaters were doing around the time, that also gave us Peter Handke, who went on to write stuff for Wim Wenders and others folks in film. His plays, were, LITERALLY, word games and nothing more ... there isn't a single sentence in many of his plays, and they are nightmarish to do on stage, but a really good intelectual exercise to get folks in acting to stop thinking that Venus de Milo is all good sex!
Damo, took the experience and matched it to music, which ended up being a very lucky mix, and a much stronger sub-text to support it, than "words" or another actor on the stage ... but sadly, Damo was never able to get better and evolve from there ... that doesn't mean create "lyrics" so everyone could understand the monaing and the screams and the sounds, but at least make better use of them so it could work with the music further yet ... and it was obvious that "Bel Air" he was still very good ... but the lyrics were sparse and he could not drum up any more to help the band ... and he was not there in "Soon Over Babbalooma" which is an absolutely fabulous album! All Damo needed was a director to work with, but he could not do this with anyone else, and I find it strange ... unless he was so ripped that no one could even say hello to him ... that it cost him a decent career. Or that he could have extended this to acting ... but he was too lazy to do so by then! .... something is missing here, see?
That whole "vocal" sound thing, was never really developed by him, Flora Purim and others that used it ... and the only person I know that matched up the "feelings" with the "sounds" and eventually "lyrics" ... was the one and only woman beat poet ever around ... Gilly Smith in Gong and on her own with Mother Gong. And she made the point that you did not have to be CRASS, or OFFENSIVE to use a few bad words and make them sound right in what she was saying and doing ... but we're not capable of getting past "words" that don't mean a thing!
javier0889 wrote:
...
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Concerning Zappa, and although I don't share the same political and sociological opinions that he proudly voiced in his vast work, I'd say music needed a guy like him.
... |
Even more so a stuck up jazz audience, and classical music audience that oftne think their poop never, ever, stinx! You should have seen the folks that went to see Return to Forever and Zappa Plays Zappa in Eugene ... the left and right ... it's almost hilarious that they were in the same room, but the folks that liked ZpZ did not appreciate the RtF as well, as the other way around! But maybe, just maybe, that night ZpZ really stunk up the house, because RtF blew them out of the house and stratosphere and Dweezil sounded like a kid playing his top ten rock music songs! Badly!
javier0889 wrote:
...
Peter Sinfield has been mentioned far too few times in my opinion. Sure, he's like a prog demigod and all that jazz, but don't we forget that he had a lot to do with THAT elp record.... you know which one  |
I do not think that Pete was, originally, connected with "music", and someone found a way to use his words to great effect and visualization to help define and make a few pieces of music that became a massive anthem for a whole generation of "Roberts" ... but it spoke well ... for the time and place! It was not until later, that folks thought he was so hip that he could write anything, that the majority of folks that used anything written by Pete was lost in the rock style of things ... singing that does not mean anything because it sounds cool (how soooo Moody Blues that is!) ... and the words all of a sudden were grossly mis-used ... because KC,on their first album set out to rehearse and make sure that the words were "alive" and no other album with Pete's words ... EVER came out right or with it ... because you can NOT think of "poetry" ... as rock music or sing them like a dictionary ... you either "get it" like the 1st KC album did, or you don't ... like the rest!
Edited by moshkito - January 14 2013 at 14:51
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17511
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Posted: January 14 2013 at 14:59 |
progbethyname wrote:
...
It's more about the the lyric content (subject matter) not the art of the music itself. Don't confuse the two, but I hear and see what you are driving at, especially in relation to 'Labrie's voice.' I don't know how many dip sh*ts have gone on about how bad LaBrie is. I say, at least respect the art of it even though it's sOmething entirely different that you are used to or can Handel on a music level. Anyway. Point taken. Oh and I am sick of close minded people like that. :( |
Again ... same person and group ... he's not what you think to others in there, and while he is not one of my favorite singers, in many ways, he is a part of the "identity" that is called "Dream Theater" ... and you are saying that a group called Dream Theater without that right arm, would be better ... and I think that you are wrong.
As I mentioned in the above post ... do not separate the person and their work with the folks they are working with ... you are forcing your own ideas onto that group ... and it would not be "Dream Theater" with your ideas!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Kirillov
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 03 2011
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 700
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Posted: January 15 2013 at 07:44 |
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
Pete Sinfield
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I prefer listening to PFM sing in Italian (even though I don't understand a word) rather than Pete Sinfield's English lyrics
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17511
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Posted: January 15 2013 at 08:10 |
Kirillov wrote:
ProgMetaller2112 wrote:
Pete Sinfield |
I prefer listening to PFM sing in Italian (even though I don't understand a word) rather than Pete Sinfield's English lyrics
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Same. Not to mention that some translations are horrendous ... !!! But Translations of cross-languages (latin word for different sources -- the romance languages are all latin-originated ... english was NOT!) are rarely good enough to make the literature or works sound right and correct.
My dad, made his name translating French work into Portuguese ... and later American authors into Portuguese. And later he even did a couple of Shakespeare plays, one of which is -- apparently -- still used because it is a good translation. Honestly, my dad's translations are ... ok ... but weak in my book ... the wording may be there, but in his attempt to also be poetic, the sentencing and sequencing of thoughts gets all mashed up into a nice mashed potatoes and gravy, but not as good tasting as the original!
Pete's translations, and also Peter Hammill's of a Le Orme work, are good ... I'm not sure they are "great" ... but they have inherant limitations of phrasing that are specific to the language that takes away the flavor.
The other side of this, is just like Amon Duul 2 and its lyrics ... they come off psychedelic, when they try to explain themselves ... and while it sounds different, it comes off rather strange ... and hearing Renate have to change voices to say something that would otherwise flow in her German language .... makes for something that ... most rock/music listeners will not appreciate or enjoy ... it sounds like bad music ... and you are simply trying to speak over it to get your point across. The energy of the music and immense power of the acting in the voice, makes it for AD2, more often than not ... but then you get Apocaliptyc Bore, and no one will listen to it because of the "singing" ... that is nto singing, but is a perfect illustration of someone translating his words and feelings and saying it in a different language ... comes off weird ... I get the meaning ... but the rest? Lost in the translation! It might have been better in German with everyone going ... what's he saying?
Edited by moshkito - January 15 2013 at 08:23
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: January 15 2013 at 08:23 |
themightywa****r wrote:
I would personally have no problem with that :LThe only reason I picked the name is because it is one of my favourite songs, in my opinion it's no different than someone's name being 2112 or The Count of Tuscany. |
Of course it is different.
Edited by Snow Dog - January 15 2013 at 09:14
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: January 15 2013 at 08:41 |
Textbook wrote:
Doesn't everyone worship Waters as a lyricist? |
Waters is garbage without Pink Floyd. Also, by far Pink Floyd's worst album is The Final Cut which was basically an unchecked Roger Waters' project. Not that it's all about lyrics, though, as his solo music just stinks all around. Anyway, the most "controversial" lyricist would have to be Frank Zappa. Nearly all of his songs (with lyrics) could be, and have,been deemed "offensive" or "controversial" at one time or another.
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 Time always wins.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: January 15 2013 at 09:01 |
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..or he's like the five year old kid who keeps saying "poo" at familiy gatherings because someone was stupid enough to laugh at it once.
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What?
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