Abundance of one-man "bands" in modern prog

HackettFan wrote: That's not the only way genres appear. A single person can get a varied musical background simply by having a varied musical background. I was working to very disparate musical forms just last night - on my own, by myself. The point about instruments is just wrong nowadays. My guitar can sound like a guitar, an organ, a piano, a synthesizer, a bouzouki, a violin, a steel drum, chimes, or something entirely crazy. I also have a very good drum machine, an Alesis SR-18. I don't doubt that there is creative stimulation one can get from a band, but the question is whether something is lacking in a one man band. Well, maybe, but not necessarily. It's analogous to alternate tunings. Yes, one can get creative stimulation from an alternate tuning, but one can also get the same stimulation with standard tuning by hearing an unusual chord or waking up on a different side of the bed.

Edited by wilmon91 - December 28 2012 at 21:13

^ I'm kinda surprised (and pleased) that you cite Vini Reilly of The Durutti Column as being commensurate with the 'modern prog' appellation. Don't get me wrong, I share your affection for the latter's music but word to the wise, this was Factory Records initial flagship act before the inexorable rise of Joy Division in the 80's. The Durutti Column were/are many things to many people but 'Prog' they resolutely ain't.


Edited by ExittheLemming - December 29 2012 at 01:07

ExittheLemming wrote: ^ I'm kinda surprised (and pleased) that you cite Vini Reilly of The Durutti Column as being commensurate with the 'modern prog' appellation. Don't get me wrong, I share your affection for the latter's music but word to the wise, this was Factory Records initial flagship act before the inexorable rise of Joy Division in the 80's. The Durutti Column were/are many things to many people but 'Prog' they resolutely ain't.

This is a great topic and one that all artists should ponder at some point.

While there may seem to be good and bad arguments.. I think it is best to strip it down to musicality at it's core.

If you get rid of computers and digital manipulation, then the picture becomes clearer.
There has yet to be an album released created in "Garage Band" that is going to equal the likes of "Close to the Edge" or any other classic prog release.  Could one person create "Dark Side of the Moon?" 

Waters is a good example of a guy who strove for autonomy over time.. ending his stint in PF with "The Final Cut"... an album clinically engineered well, but clearly stifling the creative flow of his bandmates to an extreme.

Oldfield... is an obvious comparison... while he made some fine records.. what would he have done if he had been surrounded by the Genesis guys or Yes members? 

Moraz solo works compared to "Relayer" 

One thing you have to understand is that most musicians are not going to be fully competent on all the instruments.
While it is tempting to preserve autonomy by laying down your own beat on the kit, it's generally a fools game.  Just listen to the solo albums of most great artists.  Olias of Sunhillow... it's a nice record, but think what it could have been.

What if Banks had really dug into his skills on Hackett's solo albums?

While making an album can be rewarding, as many artists including myself having band experience can attest.. it can be a very painful process.

The biggest problem facing progressive artists today is lack of commitment from fellow musicians.  In the past.. or the golden age of prog, there was upside potential to make a living doing it ... if not even to become a rockstar and live an extremely affluent existence... maybe even become knighted "Sir". 

Thanks to digital technology, that is all out the window now.  If video killed the radio star, digital killed the prog musician with gunshot blasts. 

Here's Why:

In the Golden age of Prog.. before digital quantization, pitch shifters and other "amazing" gadgets... musicians HAD TO PLAY THEIR INSTRUMENTS with much more competence.  Just to get into a good band was a challenge.  You had to be good.  When listeners heard "The Black Page" for instance.. it REALLY MADE AN IMPACT.  Now, the average listener just thinks it was some good studio work done on a program they don't understand.  You might get a commen like.. "hey, that really sounds good .... or professional."  It simply ends there.  You can't REALLY impress people anymore with recorded music. 

The live music scene for the youth culture has been replaced by computers making music.  You guys love your digital music right? BE CAREFUL WITH THAT AXE EUGENE!  Be careful what you wish for.

I played "The Black Page" for a kid recently and he simply didn't get it.  I can guarantee you any kid would have got it back in the 70's. While one might not like it... they would "get it" back then.

Why learn the drums when you can program now with perfect timing set down by a computer?  Why learn to play guitar like Jeff Beck when your teenage friends couldn't care less?   Why do anything great on an instrument as a youth when chicks would rather listen to computer generated techno.

This river runs deep folks. 

Nearfiest is gone.  Why?  You better know why if you care..... and it is not because the promoters got tired of putting in the effort. 

The River runs much deeper.

Being in a Band is too inconvenient for most kids.  Practicing hard makes no sense to them.  Learning complex musical structure, form, nuance,  articulation falls on deaf ears... that's the surface reason.

TExting rather than tossing a pebble at your friends window to discuss something after parents have gone to sleep.
Think about that process. 

A kid has to sneak out of his house.. walk somewhere or ride a bike in the dark. Sneak into a friends backyard and avoid waking a barking dog.  Help his friend climb out a window.  Find a place to talk.  A secret place.  This is a deep journey for a kid. One night of exploring.. of seeing and feeling things.. of feeling life.. of reflecting on experience.. of risk taking.. of avoiding getting grounded. 

The age of convenience is killing the mind.  It's killing off a much more visceral life experience for the youth culture... and this is reflected in the music coming out today.

GPS... over celestial navigation... or interating with other kids or people directly to find your way from one point to another.

The brain has already begun to shrink in just one generation.  

In order for music to stay innovative, new musical paradigms need to arise to give new music a distinct flavor. I think that having one man bands that utilize technology to deliver a new musical experience is exactly what prog and any genre should appreciate because it makes for change. Mind you, if you don't enjoy this sort of music, there will always still be multi-person bands, so it's not like music is losing anything when some people decide to make music this way. As for whether multi-person bands deliver a more complete experience, well, that's a matter of opinion I guess but I'd say that it's not necessarily true. 

Most one man bands are existing out of necessity.  It's much harder to keep a band together these days if not only for the lack of financial compensation by the public or record labels.  Artists will be artists and will find a pathway for their creative output. 

Artist like Fripp and Zappa that recorded early with digital technology didn't let it absorb them.  Staying in the digital bubble, not playing live, and only releasing stuff on YouTube is very much limiting the creative process.  You cannot substitute the interactive interplay of working with other competent musicians. 

My point on Hackett is that while he has surrounded himself with talented players.. Banks at one time was something very special.  Why he died artistically is for another topic of debate.  Why did classic prog die and so on..

One man band thing is a much deeper issue. 

Innovation is not dependent upon throwing away the instruments of a traditional symphony just because someone invented digital sampling.

Holding the idea that a guitar synth can sample classic keyboard sounds and replicate them properly is absurd.. unless you are basically tone deaf or have only the most superficial exposure to such sounds.

We have a real Hammond M100 hooked to a Leslie 145 speaker driven by all tube amplification.  Are you going to tell me you can get that sound out of your Casio keyboard you bought from Guitar Center or Musician's Friend?  Or that this can be replicated from a guitar synth? 

That is just babbling totally ignorant nonsense.

Surrealist wrote: If you get rid of computers and digital manipulation, then the picture becomes clearer.

Yes, there would practically be no prog scene today.   Late capitalism and the emergence of a 'lifestyle' has much more to do with the dwindling youth live scene than the poor old computer.   In our country, it is the unstable and turbulent north east that supports live music more than the comfortable big cities.  Just look at the 60s and 70s again.  It was a turbulent time in history and it is such times that art serves as an outlet for expression for a lot of people.  

Surrealist wrote: In the Golden age of Prog.. before digital quantization, pitch shifters and other "amazing" gadgets... musicians HAD TO PLAY THEIR INSTRUMENTS with much more competence.  Just to get into a good band was a challenge.  You had to be good.  When listeners heard "The Black Page" for instance.. it REALLY MADE AN IMPACT.  Now, the average listener just thinks it was some good studio work done on a program they don't understand.  You might get a commen like.. "hey, that really sounds good .... or professional."  It simply ends there.  You can't REALLY impress people anymore with recorded music.  The live music scene for the youth culture has been replaced by computers making music.  You guys love your digital music right? BE CAREFUL WITH THAT AXE EUGENE!  Be careful what you wish for. I played "The Black Page" for a kid recently and he simply didn't get it.  I can guarantee you any kid would have got it back in the 70's. While one might not like it... they would "get it" back then.

One reason for that may be that kids do 'get' that stuff like DT, Malmsteen, Guthrie Govan or Planet X is very technically demanding too, which you refuse to acknowledge.   As in, Zappa may not elicit wide eyed astonishment from the younger generation because we are not in the 70s anymore!

Surrealist wrote: Why learn the drums when you can program now with perfect timing set down by a computer?  Why learn to play guitar like Jeff Beck when your teenage friends couldn't care less?   Why do anything great on an instrument as a youth when chicks would rather listen to computer generated techno.

Isn't that a superficial, and even absurd, reason to want to learn an instrument in any case?  I should hope the river of art runs much deeper than that.  If young chicks are the priority, such a person is probably never going to be an influential force in music anyway.   I have many guitar wielding friends and they are all well aware of Beck, Blackmore, Holdsworth, Di Meola, McLaughlin so I have to question how much your strong opinions are really supported by fact.  Today, just as in earlier years, a guitar student still wants to learn to play the fastest, most technically demanding stuff.  He cannot possibly get the same high out of, er, computer generated techno as he would from playing it all by himself correctly.  

Surrealist wrote: Nearfiest is gone.  Why?  You better know why if you care..... and it is not because the promoters got tired of putting in the effort.

Nearfest is gone because they were confused about their audience.  They started out appealing to older prog rock fans and then tried to balance it with newer names which led to the cancellation of one of the fests.  

Surrealist wrote: Being in a Band is too inconvenient for most kids.  Practicing hard makes no sense to them.  Learning complex musical structure, form, nuance,  articulation falls on deaf ears... that's the surface reason. TExting rather than tossing a pebble at your friends window to discuss something after parents have gone to sleep. Think about that process.  A kid has to sneak out of his house.. walk somewhere or ride a bike in the dark. Sneak into a friends backyard and avoid waking a barking dog.  Help his friend climb out a window.  Find a place to talk.  A secret place.  This is a deep journey for a kid. One night of exploring.. of seeing and feeling things.. of feeling life.. of reflecting on experience.. of risk taking.. of avoiding getting grounded.

You make it sound like every kid was the next Zappa in the making in the 70s.  I am pretty sure that is not the case because most of them moved to well paying jobs in the banking industry a decade later.   A random kid MAY not know very much about music or be interested because music doesn't concern everyone equally.   On the other hand, and here's more food for thought for you.   I used to attend a keyboard class run essentially by a man who did it for business and not passion but who appointed good instructors to do the actual teaching.   He said he had started the music class alongside a computer tutorial in the same rented space.   The music class did much better business from the get go and he eventually shut down computer class.    There are enough people wanting to learn how to play instruments.  How many of them would go on to form bands is a different issue.

Surrealist wrote: The age of convenience is killing the mind.  It's killing off a much more visceral life experience for the youth culture... and this is reflected in the music coming out today. GPS... over celestial navigation... or interating with other kids or people directly to find your way from one point to another. The brain has already begun to shrink in just one generation.

I don't see the relation to music here because I have seen the attitude to music of the majority before the 'invasion' of convenience and it was equally apathetic.   I also think GPS is not just convenient but also a safe means of navigation.   Maybe you have never ventured into neighbourhoods of indifferent people who are least interested in helping a guest find the way to a particular destination.   Think about it, you constantly blame the tools but it is a human need that eventually created the tool.  Why shouldn't I use GPS to find my way if I may not always get timely help? 

I do share some of your skepticism over the long term effects of a computerised lifestyle on kids.   In fact, it impacts the behaviour of adults, leave alone kids.  I attended a seminar a couple of days back and when I looked around for somebody to make conversation with in the lunch break, I found everybody busy crouched over their cellphones and so decided to do likewise.   It was a seminar for finance professionals and an excellent opportunity to network but the social network reigns supreme and makes people look inward all the time.  


Again, a computer and even the worldwide web for that matter is designed for so many functions and the social network is just a small part of it.   It is up to people to decide how they use it.  I never update any news about promotions or awards I have received on facebook, it simply doesn't make sense to me.  I will personally convey the news to the people who are really interested in learning of it and that's it.   Why should I advertise it to the whole world, it feels very vain and attention seeking to me. 


Edited by rogerthat - December 30 2012 at 19:25

I'm not here to get into another analog vs digital argument.  But digital based instruments lack the quality of their analog counterpoint just as CD's lack the quality of a proper vinyl recording. 

Dean Stay out of this!

I have a friend who plays in one of the biggest roots reggae bands right now and they actually tour with an authentic Hammond B3 with a authentic Leslie because it is the only way to REALLY get the right sound. 

Are there any roots prog bands continuously touring the world right now?  The Musical Box?

The idea of "Roots" prog to most seems against the idea of progressive.  Personally I think the word "Progressive" is a horrible description because it insinuates that the music must always be "progressing" to be relevant... which of course is completely miss understood.  Should all neo prog releases be created now in Apple Garage Band because that is more modern and progressive to use virtual instruments?  Good Lord.. you do that... not me.

Let me ask this board a simple question for those with the guts to respond.

Name the top 5 "prog" releases in the last 12 years.
Then..
Name the top 5 "prog" releases from 1968 through 1979

I promise to keep this on topic...

Surrealist wrote:

Dean wrote: Without an idea, a story, a spark of originality or just something to say it really doesn't matter what instrument you play or what media you use. ...