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Topic ClosedIs Robert Fripp Overrated?

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ProgMetaller2112 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2012 at 15:12
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:


its quite complex actually what im talking about because the crims has hardly ever been like that ,following the verse-chorus-verse pattern, there's just so much going on, but for that particular song yes and my ears and brain just wont allow too much repetition and in the case of Lizard I like the Jon Anderson "Prince Rupert Awakes" part very much ITS PERFECTLY EXECUTED but "The Battle of Glass Tears" doesn't do anything for me its saxes on top of saxes and more saxes and it all sounds too repetitve and in the case of "The Talking Drum" it just deosn't do anything for me it has violins on top of annoying and repetitive passages and for Red the guitar repeats itself over and over

I wonder how is it your brain allows the repetition in Heart of the Sunrise, Close to the Edge, Firth of the fifth, La Villa Strangiato, Jacob's Ladder to name but a few tracks?   Please, reinforcement is a widely used device and is great to build momentum/tension.   

I'll make it simple for you:  the thing with KC is not much of their music is accessible nor is its direction immediately evident.   It tends to be twisted and weird, especially in comparison to Yes/Genesis/Rush.  I have been a fan of those three bands for longer than KC so I do know what I am talking about there.   Now, you are going to have a hard time convincing a lot of people on this board that it's a bad thing for music to be twisted and weird.  Perhaps if you were not in a hurry to form opinions about the music you listen to (and opinions about people who like music that you don't like), you'd find it easier to appreciate not only KC but lot many other bands.



Those songs(most of them) are well crafted in my opinion, Heart of the Sunrise keeps you on your listening ears it's not as repetitive as you might think, though those guitar lines from Steve occur quite often it's never really as repetitive, Close to the Edge is not repetitive I feel, it's executed nicely and the changes in the guitar,bass, drums in the second verse is a mind-blower, Firth of Fifth does have it's moments of repetition though I tend to love Steve's solo on that one, La Villa Strangiato though somewhat repetitive goes through a few other passages that makes it good IMO,I love Alex's solo during his little spotlight it's just so intense, and Jacob's Ladder though decent has never really been a favorite of mine from Rush it is quite repetitive
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 11:39
Hi,
 
I'm worried about people considering him/her/anyone a jerk or this or that ... because the one chance they had to meet their "hero", went away ... and those people's opinions of the person and the work are affected by the attitude.
 
In the end, I agree with you, it is the same person!
 
But, sometimes, I need to be alone to write!
 
Sometimes, others need to be alone to paint!
 
Sometimes, others needs to be alone to compose.
 
And you're pist off because of A or B, or that guy that was offended when the drummer did not say hello to him or sign his butt, when he was eating breakfast!
 
For crying out loud ... some of those people can not have any quiet, and if they ask for it, let them have it, but no ... we have to avenge our egos on them for being ....... !!!!
 
I wonder whose ego are we really talking about!
 
I have had many experiences as a kid with world famous writers, that made me think of many of these rock folks as idiots. Folks like Robert, deserve the credit, but then, for you to think that Picasso, Dali, Hemingway and many others were any nicer ... you are a fool! And it could be said that many of them were just protecting their inner person ... to make sure that they could work with it again ... but noooooo ... we're angry because we have to get even with them!
 
Be the first to throw the stone! ... you'll also be the first to get one when the time comes ... you watch!
 
Stop the hippocrisy!
 
You either appreciate the man for who he is, or you don't ... end of story ... and no in between! But it does not mean his work is worthless, though it is grossly prejudiced by your "view".
 
That means I could say ... Damo is nuts and just a displaced stoned man!
 
Daevid is just an old hippie (masculine) !
 
Gilly ... an old hippie (feminine)!
 
Keith just an old kid wanting to show his teachers he was a better player! And louder, for sure! And his "lucidity" would never be questioned, I'm sure!
 
PG was an over-opinionated man that thought his ideas were better than the rest of the music and world he was a part of!
 
Where does the insanity stop? .... like we, ourselves, do not do things that some folks don't like, but we do not want folks to know that, and you hide it like the plague from the lighthouse keepers and the christians!
 
 
 
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 12:08
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,
 
I'm worried about people considering him/her/anyone a jerk or this or that ... because the one chance they had to meet their "hero", went away ... and those people's opinions of the person and the work are affected by the attitude.


The difference is that Fripp was never my hero, I don't like his music except ITCOTCK and Starless.

I only base my opinions in own experience and testimonies of persons who treated him.

Iván
            
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 14:02
Very good point, Pedro. We do have to try and walk around in their shoes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 14:17
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

 ...
The difference is that Fripp was never my hero, I don't like his music except ITCOTCK and Starless.

I only base my opinions in own experience and testimonies of persons who treated him.

Iván
 
(Sidenote: I have no heroes and do not want any. But I do have one favorite artist in my life ... and the others are far and away 2nd and 3rd ... his name is  Chuck Jones ... and I had the honor of writing a cartoon for him, and talk to him about it ... son, I would love to work with this, but we have all been given pink slips already! ... we're all going to retire now! Can you imagine? --- but he was very happy with his effort, and that someone was insane enough to think of him! -- And Ivan, never take a left turn in Albuquerque!, or you will get just new age music!)!!!!!  ... You see ... there are some nice artists out there!
 
Ivan, I only base my opinions on MY OWN experience ... because as is the case and you can see in these writeup's, it's impossible to go by anyone else's idea or opinion!
 
In the world of arts, if you know this, you stick to your "own" ... not anyone else's. Or you do not have the "personality" to be as "progressive" as anyone we discuss!
 
All in all, I like ITCOTCK, Red/Starless and then some parts of Lark's Tongues in Aspic. All in all, the rest of KC, is rather forget'able to me, and not interesting, though I can listen to it and enjoy it ... but it is not the "grand spectacle" that some of us prefer, instead of another rock song! I prefer the quietness and some of the beautiful stuff that is found in Robert's solo albums, which are far more progressive than the KC material, except the first album. You already read my emotional review of that album, I'm sure ... the "inner peace" and "life" of that album is consistent with Robert's life of turmoil ... wether this is by accident or chance, is not for you or I to state!
 
Ivan, you and I know that if it were about "... the testimonies of persons who treated him (or her) ...", the majority of writers, musicians and artists, would never have made it through history! For almost 1500 years they were persecuted and hidden, and since then, folks seem to listen to their pastor more than they do life itself!
 
So why bother with "progressive"?
 
Robert's solo work is nice, and I enjoy things like No Pussyfooting, that many do not, because it is not a rock'n'roll song ... and I don't care ... I like to meditate with it, and it is fabulous for that ... the inner quietness is something the man has, that we do not believe he is capable of ... but you don't say ... where is that side? ... you say ... I don't like him because John said no, or Tom, or Dick, or Harry or Mary!
 
People are people, and so are you! And I! And others here! Doesn't matter if his name is this or that ... what matters, when you put the scales together ... where does the weight lie? ... with the work!
 
And I'm sure even you would rather be appreciated for your work ... than just an opinion!


Edited by moshkito - December 26 2012 at 14:46
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 15:08
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

All in all, I like ITCOTCK, Red/Starless and then some parts of Lark's Tongues in Aspic. All in all, the rest of KC, is rather forget'able to me, and not interesting, though I can listen to it and enjoy it ... but it is not the "grand spectacle" that some of us prefer, instead of another rock song!
 


are you actually saying that things like Lizard and Islands sound like "another rock song" to you instead of a "grand spectacle"? I'm curious to know what kind of typical rock songs you listen to and what standards you have for something to be a "grand spectacle"


Edited by Sumdeus - December 26 2012 at 15:14
Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 15:08
Terry Kath (chicago's guitar player) was a much better IMO and more under-rated than just about anybody.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 18:11
Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:


he didn't save prog rock with Discipline, remember the band was on hiatus from 75-80 I 'd argue that Rush saved prog rock when others were either going extinct or "selling out" with 2112-Moving Pictures then they came back with Discipline, all you guys are acting as if Fripp is god or something, I know I'm gonna hear about it from someone

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:


He has a point about Rush.  They were holding the fort down during the late 70's (even though they weren't actually considered prog at the time).

Do you really think Rush was the most progressive band during the 80's?? Dig a little deeper there were dozens of bands playing new, exciting and experimental music, from all over the world.


Didn't say they were the only one, or the most progressive.  They were one of the only more commercially successful bands to continue making prog during the late 70s and early 80s, when most of the other big-name prog groups were moving in a more pop-oriented direction.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 18:47
Originally posted by ProgEpics ProgEpics wrote:

Terry Kath (chicago's guitar player) was a much better IMO and more under-rated than just about anybody.
Define "better".
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 18:52
^more gooder
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 19:45
Geek E-eh?* Care to elaborate on that?

*Maybe I really should get to listening to some Chicago albums, but from what I've heard thus far ... .


Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 26 2012 at 19:47
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 20:06
Not really, just injecting some humor into a tired subject. Better is obviously up to the subjective view, unless you wanted to make it stats like baseball or something or other. Lets say we did, base it on record sales, then Kath wins because i am pretty sure Chicago has sold more albums than King Crimson. Personally I like them both.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2012 at 20:58
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Geek E-eh?* Care to elaborate on that?

*Maybe I really should get to listening to some Chicago albums, but from what I've heard thus far ... .

If anything, you owe it to yourself to dig their first couple records. Man, that Poem 58 kicks some ass. That sappy poppy love stuff is about as far away from real early Chicago as Phil Collins' solo career is from Selling England. 

Hey, I like Fripp as a musician a lot more than all that, though. Not too big a fan of pussyfooting. But if he had ever been OVERrated, then maybe poodle-head skronk fops like Yngwie Malmsteen woulda been inspired to do electric ambient or something.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 13:56
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:


he didn't save prog rock with Discipline, remember the band was on hiatus from 75-80 I 'd argue that Rush saved prog rock when others were either going extinct or "selling out" with 2112-Moving Pictures then they came back with Discipline, all you guys are acting as if Fripp is god or something, I know I'm gonna hear about it from someone

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:


He has a point about Rush.  They were holding the fort down during the late 70's (even though they weren't actually considered prog at the time).

Do you really think Rush was the most progressive band during the 80's?? Dig a little deeper there were dozens of bands playing new, exciting and experimental music, from all over the world.


Didn't say they were the only one, or the most progressive.  They were one of the only more commercially successful bands to continue making prog during the late 70s and early 80s, when most of the other big-name prog groups were moving in a more pop-oriented direction.


commercialConfusedConfused no way
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 14:11
I got the remastered Larks Tongues today. Bloody superb stuff.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 16:43
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:


he didn't save prog rock with Discipline, remember the band was on hiatus from 75-80 I 'd argue that Rush saved prog rock when others were either going extinct or "selling out" with 2112-Moving Pictures then they came back with Discipline, all you guys are acting as if Fripp is god or something, I know I'm gonna hear about it from someone

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:


He has a point about Rush.  They were holding the fort down during the late 70's (even though they weren't actually considered prog at the time).

Do you really think Rush was the most progressive band during the 80's?? Dig a little deeper there were dozens of bands playing new, exciting and experimental music, from all over the world.


Didn't say they were the only one, or the most progressive.  They were one of the only more commercially successful bands to continue making prog during the late 70s and early 80s, when most of the other big-name prog groups were moving in a more pop-oriented direction.


commercialConfusedConfused no way


Not making "commercial" music, but "commercially successful."  Rush was huge when Moving Pictures came out.  Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 18:02
Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:

Originally posted by sagichim sagichim wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:


he didn't save prog rock with Discipline, remember the band was on hiatus from 75-80 I 'd argue that Rush saved prog rock when others were either going extinct or "selling out" with 2112-Moving Pictures then they came back with Discipline, all you guys are acting as if Fripp is god or something, I know I'm gonna hear about it from someone

Originally posted by Ambient Hurricanes Ambient Hurricanes wrote:


He has a point about Rush.  They were holding the fort down during the late 70's (even though they weren't actually considered prog at the time).

Do you really think Rush was the most progressive band during the 80's?? Dig a little deeper there were dozens of bands playing new, exciting and experimental music, from all over the world.


Didn't say they were the only one, or the most progressive.  They were one of the only more commercially successful bands to continue making prog during the late 70s and early 80s, when most of the other big-name prog groups were moving in a more pop-oriented direction.


commercialConfusedConfused no way


Not making "commercial" music, but "commercially successful."  Rush was huge when Moving Pictures came out.  Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world.
Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band everWinkWinkWink

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Ignorance is strength.”

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 18:32
Robert may be a bit of an a-hole, but I still like a lot of his music.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 18:38
Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band everWinkWinkWink

Yeah, because the commercial success is all that matters. Confused How did I not think of this before?

Edited by Dayvenkirq - December 27 2012 at 18:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2012 at 19:58
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

Originally posted by ProgMetaller2112 ProgMetaller2112 wrote:

Today, they very well may be the most commercially successful progressive rock band in the world. In other words the most successful prog rock band everWinkWinkWink

Yeah, because the commercial success is all that matters. Confused How did I not think of this before?

Commercial success does matter; there is correlation between the music quality of a given album and the number of copies sold - that is, if your methodology is right:

- Only look at the buying behavior of a specific group (like e.g. "prog" lovers), and disregard the rest of the statistics, so that you'd be comparing apples to apples
- Ignore reviews, ratings and forum noise: BS talks, money walks. 

I noticed a while ago that I am willing to spend more money on the best-selling albums of Yes, KC, PT, PF etc. than I would on their more obscure stuff. I haste to re-iterate that I don't buy the likes of Britney Spears, Justin Beaver, Katy Perry and the rest of them. 






  
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