Close To The Edge or Red?

rogerthat wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote: Sumdeus wrote: thellama73 wrote: Nobody listens to the Grateful Dead. :( still, i think it is simply ridiculous to say "composition>improvisation". imo the best compositions usually involve improvisation to a certain degree, and I also like a lot of music that is composed through improvisation itself... How about this COMPLEX Composition>Improvisation That's what I iniltially meant, f**k And improvisation cannot be complex?   Should I seriously choose a set of, say, Spocks Beard over Barbara Dennerlein or Bela Fleck?  Why on earth?  Apart from all this, complexity is not everything in music and it is also a very broad based concept, nothing to be pigeon-holed in the way you are attempting to.

Improvisation is merely spontaneous composition.  Ergo, composition (complex or not) cannot be inherently greater than improvisation.

To the thread topic...although I love both, Close to the Edge is pretty close to untouchable.  It deserves its top spot in our top 100 albums list, imo (even though its not my personal favorite).

Ambient Hurricanes wrote: rogerthat wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote: Sumdeus wrote: thellama73 wrote: Nobody listens to the Grateful Dead. :( still, i think it is simply ridiculous to say "composition>improvisation". imo the best compositions usually involve improvisation to a certain degree, and I also like a lot of music that is composed through improvisation itself... How about this COMPLEX Composition>Improvisation That's what I iniltially meant, f**k And improvisation cannot be complex?   Should I seriously choose a set of, say, Spocks Beard over Barbara Dennerlein or Bela Fleck?  Why on earth?  Apart from all this, complexity is not everything in music and it is also a very broad based concept, nothing to be pigeon-holed in the way you are attempting to. Improvisation is merely spontaneous composition.  Ergo, composition (complex or not) cannot be inherently greater than improvisation.

thellama73 wrote: m I the only one who thinks One More Red Nightmare is brillliant? People always talk about the title track and Starless (which is admittedly amazing) but I never hear much talk about that one. It's one of my all time favorite Crimson tracks.

No, you're right. It's brilliant! One of my favourite KC tracks too.

sagichim wrote: The Bearded Bard wrote: Red.   What's wrong with Providence? Better than most of the tracks, improvs or not, on SaBB, IMO. Yes it is. And I dare say it's my favorite track on Red!

It's great, but it's not my favourite. Would put it fourth behind Fallen Angel, Starless and One More Red Nightmare. But all the tracks on Red are great! That's more than I can say about CttE. The title track is amazing, and the other two have their moments, but they're not consistent enough, IMO. 

ProgMetaller2112 wrote: Complex composition is well thought-out while improv loses any genuine feel its just pussyfooting and it doesn't go anywhere,sorry I much rather prefer something like The Cinema Show over say a Moonchild. Why? It's well crafted and complex and well thoughtout while Moonchild is a waste of time

Er, what??  Improv brings about a vital human element in the music as also an element of surprise/chance.   But I guess you perhaps love listening to Celine Dion play pre recorded tracks while she pretends to perform live.    I mean, well thought composition (and by implication, its immaculate reproduction) is better than improv, right?

And, besides, what are you doing listening to prog, which is based on rock and which in turn is based on blues?  Blues has always been about flawed spontaneity and not calculated precision.  


Edited by rogerthat - December 20 2012 at 00:34

ProgMetaller2112 wrote: Wait wait wait I can't listen to Prog just because of what I said, give me a break!!!!!

I hate to ask this question but how old are you?   And what at all do you know about the history of rock music?  If any school teaches you that improvisation in rock is nonsense, you need to find a different one asap....but I doubt they would, so stop fibbing.

ProgMetaller2112 wrote: I'm so sorry if I'm making you rethink everything about King Crimson jeesh

You flatter yourself way, way too much. 

Dayvenkirq wrote: rogerthat wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote: Wait wait wait I can't listen to Prog just because of what I said, give me a break!!!!! I hate to ask this question but how old are you?   And what at all do you know about the history of rock music?  If any school teaches you that improvisation in rock is nonsense, you need to find a different one asap....but I doubt they would, so stop fibbing. It says he is 23. No offense to Mr. PM2112 here, but it's a little hard to believe that he is 23.

I am exactly 23 years of age I'm sorry that Crimson doesn't appeal to me we all have some artists that don't appeal to us, I don't know why you can't see that

rogerthat wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote: Wait wait wait I can't listen to Prog just because of what I said, give me a break!!!!! I hate to ask this question but how old are you?   And what at all do you know about the history of rock music?  If any school teaches you that improvisation in rock is nonsense, you need to find a different one asap....but I doubt they would, so stop fibbing. ProgMetaller2112 wrote: I'm so sorry if I'm making you rethink everything about King Crimson jeesh You flatter yourself way, way too much.

No no you just don't let others have a stab/take on an artist, I gotta go back to reading I don't want to cause anything bad, damn it!!

ProgMetaller2112 wrote: I much rather prefer something like The Cinema Show over say a Moonchild. Why? It's well crafted and complex and well thoughtout while Moonchild is a waste of time

I can give you hundred oposite examples of incredible imrovised songs vs. sh*ty prog songs, does it mean that I think improvisation is better than studio tracks? No.
If you don't like improvised stuff that's ok, I respect that, there are people who can't listen to live concerts that's ok too. Don't mix your personal tastes with facts.

I happen to love Moonchild, I don't know I just love it. Am I wrong? Do I like crapy music?
(Please don't answer that)

I've never heard either.  Heard some of both, sure, but not nearly enough to vote.

Now I want to hear a performance of the former piece.