"Freedom" thread or something

I thank y'. I owe it all to rampant alliterate bouts of foolish youth and McCarthyism. There was supposed to be a comma between rampant and alliterate but I refused to place it there on purpose.

That's why I'm here. I'm PA's version of the rubber chicken slinging knight.

Your false liberty will surely die.

JJLehto wrote: I'm re-reading one of his now Pat, "The Socialist Phenomenon" and it's certainly intriguing at least. I gather the theory is it ultimately boils down to individualism vs collectivism, and the later is subconsciously fueled by nihilism. Not that we know it, it's a psyche thing. Even says collectivism is akin to a death wish. He works god into it and I don't like that , but the final point is powerful: It's down to choosing life or death.

I don't buy it. I tend to think Hayek was right in The Fatal Conceit about collectivism being an instinctual relic from tribal society. Collectivism works great in a group of ten or twenty people, but fails miserably when you try to extend it to several million.

Slartibartfast wrote: Your false liberty will surely die.

Oi, your lack of effort is painful man. Really it's just sad now


Speaking of Rand, I did read Anthem. Gotta agree, her physical writing is, well not very good. The idea was fine and all, but I'm reading "We" know and honestly, it's the same thing but that was written 17 years before Anthem. By a Russian as well, not saying anything but...well I'm saying it It also is much better written.


Yeah llama, it's more intriguing than anything. IDK if he means a literal death wish...maybe more of a "death of your individuality" thing. I just was intrigued that I noticed I've been worlds more content, and less angry, in recent years. Had the shift in political outlook, chicken or the egg? I just wonder if pessimism (to be simplistic) is the psyche behind collectivism, the want to give up your individuality (and others) says something about something. IDK it's whacky sh*t


Edited by JJLehto - December 16 2012 at 10:47

Equality 7-2521 wrote: Most of the classic dystopians just stole from We.

What blew my mind was the whole science aspect of it. How science was the justification behind the dystopia.
I'm not one of these anti science b*****ds, despite what a few want to think, but can't help but notice "science" is the rationale behind a lot of big government, or the general "correcting our mistakes". Feels very we-like.
And whenever one of us has a casual objection, it's completely lol'd at and ignored since we're some "anti science cavemen"

No doubt that modern Statism was propelled by academics and breakthroughs in science. Of course, the whole science can solve all of society's inefficiencies is decidedly anti-scientific and dripping with hubris of the most self-interested sort. 

I find that a lot of anti-religious atheist folk I know hide behind the banner of 'all-powerful omnipotent science' to justify their mean-spirited criticism. To me it was never 'science knows everything' it was 'science is a tool we humans use to further our understanding and progress technology'. 

JJLehto wrote: Indeed Dusty. Hey, we all gotta steal from somewhere! I guess I can't accurately judge, not having read yet, but I can't agree with the whole greedy/altruism thing. I support individuality and limited gov and all, but I personally can't say Altruism is stupid, (even if "technically" it is) and greed is good. Equality 7-2521 wrote: No doubt that modern Statism was propelled by academics and breakthroughs in science. Of course, the whole science can solve all of society's inefficiencies is decidedly anti-scientific and dripping with hubris of the most self-interested sort.  Precisely.

I don't worship her writing. I don't worship anybody. I do like a lot of her ideas, though. As for reading philosophy, I'd rather they implement their beliefs and concepts into a story rather than plaster it all in a big list.