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Roxbrough View Drop Down
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Points: 100 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2012 at 15:56
Hear hear.
You will never convince the 'kids' though, they would not recognise music even if they 'heard' it. Most of them do not. They think listening to the compressed mid rubbish on you tube is listening to music !!!!
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2012 at 15:58
oh God...
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2012 at 17:25
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

Nitpicky as usual Wink
Of course. I'm an engineer. It's what I do. Geek
 
 
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

In the context of the discussion it seemed clear that the defendants of analog sound referred to modern digital computer technology and that they would not have regarded analog synths (perhaps not even analog computers in general) as "computers" in this discussion.
Of course. That goes without saying. Wink
 
 
 
Along with all other things analogue and digital I have an interest in analogue computing - the first computer I ever worked on (in the early 70s) was an analogue computer constructed using thermionic valve chopper amplifiers. Analogue synthesisers for the home constructor were becoming popular at that time and the connection between the two was obvious to me since all functions of sound manipulation are mathematical - a high pass filter is an integrator etc. One of the first programs I wrote on getting a home computer in 1978/9 was an analogue computer simulator, and (after much refinement and several home computers later) one of the main uses I put that to was sound synthesis and manipulation. This is not a new science, even while Babbage's Analytical Engine was only a concept Ada Lovelace saw the obvious potential in computers and music:
Quote Supposing for instance that the fundamental relations of pitched sounds in the science of harmony and of musical composition were susceptible of such expression and adaptations the engine might compose elaborate and scientific pieces of music of any degree of complexity or extent
~ Ada Lovelace ~ 1843
Probably completely unrealisable using the Analytical Engine, but it would have made for a wonderful steam-punk image of Wendy Carlos at the controls of Babbage's machine, or Keith Emerson risking life and limb thrusting knives into its brass and steel gears.
 
But there goes the wonder and marvel of it all - that sound bursts forth from a cone of paper and wire suspended in a magnetic field is astonishing enough if we can be bothered to stop and consider what it is we are actually listening to.
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Points: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2012 at 02:57
Originally posted by Roxbrough Roxbrough wrote:

Hear hear.
You will never convince the 'kids' though, they would not recognise music even if they 'heard' it. Most of them do not. They think listening to the compressed mid rubbish on you tube is listening to music !!!!

I understand your point, yes we live in a world where the celebration of ignorence predominates, but this is not the fault of the young .
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
    Oscar Wilde, De Profundis, 1905
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2012 at 04:11
What is wrong with listening to music  on Youtube?  My children do it. We all used to listen to AM radio back in the seventies. Nearly everyone had them in the kitchen, bit of breakfast show  before school. Charts at lunchtime. Happy days...

Many of us listened to Luxembourg in bed. Terrible sound but I heard some good music for all  that.


Edited by Snow Dog - December 15 2012 at 05:03
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2012 at 06:15

Am I the only one tuned in to Luxembourg tonight
Do they only programme music
to accompany my cough
Lousy words and drab percussion
Fading in and out of Russian
I haven't got the strength to turn it off


~ Godley & Creme ~ Get Well Soon
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Points: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2012 at 21:04
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Originally posted by Aquiring the Taste Aquiring the Taste wrote:


Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

Computers are good for sending emails, chatrooms, commercial art, reading the news, crunching scientific equations and a couple other things.. Keep them out of our cars, stereo systems and recording studios.  The computer is a very over rated concept.  The best albums were done without computers.  Tape machines record sound much better even to this day.  If an artist can't get the track they should practice harder, not rely upon a computer program to fix it with quantization or pitch shifters. 
Especially the recording studios!


I guess we are ruling out great scientific efficiency set forth by human beings in general. Geez. Too far guys.
As for the recording studio, computers are wonderful tools to weed out a lot of trail and error, so your hero's of today can put together quality albums without the burden of more stress that is already in effect during the recording process.

You guys should be kissing computers asses right now. What? You think STEVENWILSON doesn't use computers heavily on order to churn out wonderful remastered editions of all your favourites from TULL, CRIMSON and ELP.

Agh wait a sec? That's digital. You guys as vinyl heads. Ah screw it. Have fun in your Amish paradise.   

Neo luddism is alive & wellClap
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2012 at 03:02
Ermm
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Points: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2012 at 03:13
Exclamation
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
    Oscar Wilde, De Profundis, 1905
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2012 at 06:06
^You're analogy is once again bad. If anything you are the luddite.
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Points: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2012 at 11:26
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^You're analogy is once again bad. If anything you are the luddite.

It hurts to think down to your level,
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2012 at 11:31
Originally posted by Aquiring the Taste Aquiring the Taste wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^You're analogy is once again bad. If anything you are the luddite.

It hurts to think down to your level,

It is sad that you have to be insulting. I have no further wish to discuss with you. You just lost the argument to me.
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Points: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2012 at 11:44
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Aquiring the Taste Aquiring the Taste wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^You're analogy is once again bad. If anything you are the luddite.

It hurts to think down to your level,

It is sad that you have to be insulting. I have no further wish to discuss with you. You just lost the argument to me.

Naturally. I  can't help what you don't understand.
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
    Oscar Wilde, De Profundis, 1905
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2012 at 11:49
Originally posted by Aquiring the Taste Aquiring the Taste wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Aquiring the Taste Aquiring the Taste wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

^You're analogy is once again bad. If anything you are the luddite.

It hurts to think down to your level,

It is sad that you have to be insulting. I have no further wish to discuss with you. You just lost the argument to me.

Naturally. I  can't help what you don't understand.

And I am not responsible for ignorance in others.
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Points: 35 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2012 at 12:24
Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

Computers are good for sending emails, chatrooms, commercial art, reading the news, crunching scientific equations and a couple other things.. Keep them out of our cars, stereo systems and recording studios.  The computer is a very over rated concept. 

The best albums were done without computers.  Tape machines record sound much better even to this day.  If an artist can't get the track they should practice harder, not rely upon a computer program to fix it with quantization or pitch shifters. 

What a ridiculous statement!  Computers are integral to cars these days - what possible objection could you have? Still want a polluting V8 over a modern turbo 4 that produces plenty of horsepower with far less emissions?

The analog vs digital is really an elitist strawman argument.  The idea that analog is more pure or natural is bs.  Tape alters sound.  The analog sound path alters the signal.  The vinyl disc alters the sound.  If you think that analog is better - then it is only because you prefer that effect, that sound.

Digital has gotten very very good and I prefer that sound to analog.

Analog or Digital?  It's a preference and nothing more. 
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Points: 68 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2012 at 17:27
It should be, but it isn't.
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.
    Oscar Wilde, De Profundis, 1905
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Points: 232 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2012 at 12:23
Hear hear.
You will never convince the 'kids' though, they would not recognise music even if they 'heard' it. Most of them do not. They think listening to the compressed mid rubbish on you tube is listening to music !!!!

But its' digital right? Youtube? Must be good.  Technology is alway moving forward and better? 

Analog or Digital?  It's a preference and nothing more.

No....I would say it is more like taking a audiophile IQ test.

 The analog sound path alters the signal.

Yes, and in a very good way.  Just as a great sounding guitar alters the harmonic tone of vibrating strings and creates something better than if you just ran strings across a hacksaw frame.

Has anyone here ever read "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"?

Those favoring digital are taking the position that "quality" is a purely subjective experience.  There are very profound arguments against posturing such a claim.  More than could be discussed here... but ZATAOMM does
as good a job of opening a closed mind as anything I have ever seen put forth in a logical debatable format.
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Points: 17524 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2012 at 12:42
Originally posted by docall27 docall27 wrote:

Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

Computers are good for sending emails, chatrooms, commercial art, reading the news, crunching scientific equations and a couple other things.. Keep them out of our cars, stereo systems and recording studios.  The computer is a very over rated concept. 

The best albums were done without computers.  Tape machines record sound much better even to this day.  If an artist can't get the track they should practice harder, not rely upon a computer program to fix it with quantization or pitch shifters. 

What a ridiculous statement!  Computers are integral to cars these days - what possible objection could you have? Still want a polluting V8 over a modern turbo 4 that produces plenty of horsepower with far less emissions?

The analog vs digital is really an elitist strawman argument.  The idea that analog is more pure or natural is bs.  Tape alters sound.  The analog sound path alters the signal.  The vinyl disc alters the sound.  If you think that analog is better - then it is only because you prefer that effect, that sound.

Digital has gotten very very good and I prefer that sound to analog.

Analog or Digital?  It's a preference and nothing more. 
 
There is a massive, and absolutely fabulous ... interview with Edgar Froese that discusses analog and digital ... and few people in the business will know as much about the whole thing as Edgar does ... and when you read that interview, the first thing you say is ... DAMNNNN ... I know nothing about the subject!
 
And most people are stuck on an idea ... not a reality!
 
Btw, if anyone has heard the Phaedra's Anniversary, I kinda doubt that anyone here will tell you that the Digital Sound was not as good as the original ... actually, the digital version, though not complete, was far better done than the original!
 
Don't worry ... these people want to look like Mick and Chuck Berry when they die doing the same old songs, and looking rather ... boring!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 8 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2012 at 14:04
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Points: 8 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2012 at 14:15
IMHO, analog is really better than digital. Just one thought:

signal modified by analog = a variation of the same signal

signal modified by digital = new signal that sounds like the analog variation, but is totally different by the first signal.
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