Trolls scare a band from PA |
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pianoman
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 28 2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 793 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 15:17 | |||||
Totally agree. I say that once new accounts are created, there should be something stopping them from rating albums at first. Maybe they have to write a certain amount of reviews first, or make at least 15 forum posts, etc. |
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7851 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 15:36 | |||||
^ I think some number of posts in the forum is enough to see whether the person is adequate or not. No need to make people write reviews if they can't or don't want to.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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UMUR
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 19 2007 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3069 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 15:39 | |||||
Max is the webmaster and owner of PA, but issues like these are normally handled by the appointed admins. Max simply can´t answer all PMs send directly to him in a timely manner. You seem disappointed by his answer/his blind acceptance of your request to delete your band, but Max isn´t the right person to contact for help with things like this. Had you contacted an admin, a discussion about the request would most likely have taken place in the admin zone and admin action might have been taken against the trolls. ...this is not necessarily a matter of course and most people might not know this, but it´s the admins who know what´s going on, on the site. Max has a much more superficial knowledge of what goes on in the forum and with ratings and reviews. ...I hope you´ll reconsider and let Ivan add your band again. Don´t let the damn trolls win... ...as Dean said earlier, the admins will take action if they discover blatant abuse. Sometimes it´s hard to prove that it´s abuse, but as you can see Dean is a very thorough admin, and had this been reported to the right persons, there might have been a good chance that this situation could have been solved to your satisfaction.
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 16913 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 15:45 | |||||
I support this. Even if the affect on the ratings is quite small, as you have already demonstrated in the past, the fact is that these constant manipulations have a damaging effect on perception of the site. |
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7851 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 16:02 | |||||
I say it again - separating reviews and ratings will not necessarily solve the problem.
Imagine, there is some album nobody cares to review (not a rare thing at all), but a bunch of "blue meanies" gives it their 1-star ratings. And what? While proposed feature makes the rating system more confusing and breaks (in my opinion) some fundamental PA principles.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Finnforest
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 03 2007 Location: The Heartland Status: Offline Points: 16913 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 16:08 | |||||
It would make it harder for the trolls. They could still be dealt with, but would be less frequent. And it breaks no PA principles imo. This is a reviews site first and foremost, much more important than fly by night ratings.
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7851 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 16:14 | |||||
Again, why not to arrest everybody in the street? It would make it harder for the criminals to do their job.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 16:15 | |||||
I don't see what principles are being broken - expecting people to post something on the forum breaks PA principles because it mean that they have to be able to post in English and that's not only against the ethos behind having ratings-only, it is unfair on people who cannot write in English.
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 16:17 | |||||
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What?
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 16:18 | |||||
Is this perhaps something best discussed elsewhere, or is it in PA's interest to be as transparent about the matter as possible?
I am not being sarcastic - this is a genuine question. |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 17:06 | |||||
Good news guys
I'll do it ASAP
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7851 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 17:09 | |||||
With or without separation you and other admins have to have guns always loaded. And what's the use of separation? We have now a rating system, where ratings and reviews without ratings made by collabs and non-collabs have different weights. Is it good or bad, but we used to live with it. It's not completely democratic, but it sums up opinions. Why separated system will be better?
I have to agree, saying "breaking principles" was too much. You're right. Edited by NotAProghead - November 12 2012 at 17:11 |
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Dean
Special Collaborator Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:06 | |||||
We (what am I saying? I'm the Admin who does this year after year) I will not have to load my gun quite so often. I've said this before - I'm lazy, the less work I have to do around here the more will get done. With the two methods seperated we will be able to tell when abuse is occuring a lot sooner because the two averages will start to diverge quicker when abuse is happening.
The level of abuse that can occur in review-only chart/averages will be much less - it will be a fairer representation of the album.
We could do without weightings, or at least have a more representative weighting system - at the moment we encourage abuse of the rating-only system because we have weighting and we have weighting because abuse happens - it's Catch 21¾ + ¼.
With two seperate charts the weighting becomes a reward for collaborating rather than a punishment for abuse.
But it doesn't sum up opinion at all. Why is the yearly chart is not the same as the Collabs Top Albums list? - surely if the yearly chart was a fair and democratic sumation of opinion then the two lists would be very similar, afterall most of the reviews are written by the same collabs who vote in the Collabs Top Album list. Is our opinion really so far out of whack with the opinions of the casual visitor?
They won't be worse and they won't be the same, ergo they will be better. Simples. Edited by Dean - November 12 2012 at 19:07 |
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65245 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:17 | |||||
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32524 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:27 | |||||
I would abolish ratings only.
Simples(er). |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:40 | |||||
OK. Life Line Project is back.
Thanks Dean for the info. Iván
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:40 | |||||
Second! |
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19535 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 19:41 | |||||
I been a supporter of this radical option, but M@X wants them So Dean's solution is the best IMO Iván
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CCVP
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 15 2007 Location: Vitória, Brasil Status: Offline Points: 7971 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:04 | |||||
Indeed. And lets not forget this is the internet, people. Most of it is in English (or at least the biggest chunk of it) and it is the only lingua franca we have left. So, in order to participate on the international stuff you will need English. I've never agreed with this restriction here in PA and I do believe it's a reflex from the Quebecois origins of many of PAs founders.
Edited by CCVP - November 12 2012 at 20:07 |
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thellama73
Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
Posted: November 12 2012 at 20:07 | |||||
Speaking of ratings without reviews, would Dean or some other friendly admin mind removing any ratings without reviews done by me, when you are not too busy? They are all unintentional and a product of errant mouseclicks and I find it extremely frustrating that I cannot undo them myself.
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