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Guldbamsen 
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23104
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 Posted: November 05 2012 at 12:58 |
 timothy leary wrote:
^ There you go with that ear surgery stuff again. |
So I've got a thing for ears. I'm a sick man, trust me I know
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7868
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Posted: November 05 2012 at 13:04 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
Dean wrote:
 I never made such a clam....  |
Fixed. |
Agreed.
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7868
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Posted: November 05 2012 at 13:07 |
Guldbamsen wrote:
Well just because one prefers analogue to digital doesn't necessarily mean that others have their ears sown on backwards.I prefer vinyl - and in many cases I prefer analogue instruments to digital, but I won't sit here and say that I have anything real to base my opinion on. Personally, I feel that IQ's Frequency would have benefited immensely from a real piano and some analogue keys, but maybe that has something to do with the end production of the thing. Again, I don't pretend to know anything about this, but I still maintain that Frequency would have been a far warmer and vibrant album had these things roamed the way I would've liked them to. How's that for (anti)proof?  Who said something about ranting? |
Interesting opinion. Well I would like to hear what that would sound like. FREQUENCY is a terrific album. 
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 05 2012 at 13:32 |
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What?
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17973
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Posted: November 08 2012 at 09:26 |
Surrealist wrote:
Progressive Rock music has been in decline since the late 1970's. While there have been splashes of interesting things things from time to time.. I don't think I have yet to hear a contemporary prog band that has released something that has had the impact of the greats of the golden age.
I blame a lot of this on production. Not for lack of it.. but more the opposite. Too much. The digital age has not helped this at all... both sonically and giving the artists the easy way out. Instead of having the grind it out... and practice, they can just manipulate the tracks after the fact in Pro Tools etc.
The general public isn't impressed by a drummer who can actually play complex patterns in real time because all bands now... even pop bands have their releases homogenized by the engineers and producers who use
quantization software on the rhythm section as standard protocol prior to mixing. Carl Palmer, Bruford, Allan White, John Weathers etc didn't have that luxury.
Prog has shifted in general toward Metal Prog which really is a separate genre of music completely. Metal must be heavy for it to be metal.. and heavy drumming is not prog drumming just because it is in odd metering. The great prog drummers used the entire spectrum, and ALL of them had good jazz chops also. They could play in the pocket.. they could articulate jazz coloring, and of course drive it home in a heavy way when needed.. but with a certain amount of restraint as far as the overall content of an album.
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There is some merit here........
Dean wrote:
Progressive Rock has been in decline since the mid-70s. Production has got nothing to do with it. If you don't like modern Prog then fine, you don't like modern Prog. If you don't like modern production then fine, you don't like modern production. The Prog Metal connection is completely irrelevant since that is a merely a sub-set of modern Prog, there is plenty of modern prog out there thart has no Metal connection, and there is metal out there that has a jazz connection - none of these in themselves can be used to explain your distain. Good modern drummers aren't that hard to find, for example Gavin Harrison can knock-out complex polyrhythms and polymeters and (more importantly) knows the difference between them, all you need is articulated ears to hear them.
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...and there is some merit here.
I would not take either as black and white. Mid 70s, late 70s, I agree somewhere in there it changed, for the worse or better is matter of opinion. I think it did progress into what it is now, electronica seems to be the big influence on what we here now. A lot of "electronica" and experimentation went into DSOtM, I think a lot of bands tried to follow that path and many probably still try to....Maybe not, I have no idea what an artist is thinking as they write, record, produce a new album. I think the ones that are still around probably draw off their own influence...they try to better what they did the last time rather than do what another band had done.
Its easy for me to say I like the whole package of older prog, back in the analog days. But I am very, very picky on what I tend to migrate to in the new prog, digital age....Its different, sounds different, looks different, tastes different...
But I do listen to both, although having the luxury of growing up more with the older prog, of course to me that will always be the preference....and of course on vinyl 
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 08 2012 at 09:58 |
Catcher10 wrote:
But I do listen to both, although having the luxury of growing up more with the older prog, of course to me that will always be the preference....and of course on vinyl |
Is that a luxury? I grew up with Prog, I also grew up with the Beat explosion of the 60s and I grew up with synth pop of the 80s - I'm 55 and I'm still growing up. If just one artist is being innovative and creative in any given time period or any given era then surely that is enough, that is the real luxury, not the media you hear it on, but the artist that makes you sit up and listen. Look back to 100-400 years ago and the literally thousands of classical composers that were producing scores and manuscripts for sonatas, concertos and symphonies that no one today will ever hear, even those like Louis Spohr who aren't part of the Now That's What I Call Classical Music #34 swathe of popular classics that passes for "Classical Music" now-a-days are reduced to being a side-note of passing interest to a select few. No one alive today had the "luxury" of growing up with that music, and since the only means of recording that music was by pen and ink, few will ever hear it. And it wasn't that much different 40 years ago when we had the "luxury" of only hearing the music that the likes of Tony Stratton Smith or Richard Branson decide we should hear and all those thousands of bands who failed to get a recording contract are now lost forever just because the music they were creating failed to impress one of maybe 100 people involved in signing bands to the few record labels that existed back then. And that was a crap situation regardless of how nostalgic you are or how darkly hued your rose-tinted spectacles are. Now we get to hear everyone who ever made a noise that can be called music if we care to listen. That is the greatest luxury that digital recording can offer us - it removes the power from the record labels and the recording studios to dictate to us what we should listen to and what we can listen to. And only digital media can do this for us - sure a few people have the "luxury" of recording onto antique analogue equipment and then paying to have someone master that onto acetate for a limited production run of a few hundred vinyls, but for the rest of the aspiring musicians out there, (who are not as untalented or creatively vacuous as some would have us believe), digital recording, digital media and digital delivery/distribution has opened the magic box of earthly delights. And that is a luxury I will treasure for the rest of the time I spend on this planet growing up.
Edited by Dean - November 08 2012 at 10:00
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What?
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Topjukes
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 13 2009
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9
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Posted: November 08 2012 at 19:04 |
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Here at Plane Groovy we've released a number of Prog albums on heavyweight vinyl - with universally positive feedback. The really heartening aspect of this is that, having listened to our releases, people are then going back and revisiting their old vinyl collections - in a hugely positive way. This makes me very happy!
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www.planegroovy.com - for the music you always wanted to hear on vinyl!
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Surrealist
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 12 2012
Location: Squonk
Status: Offline
Points: 232
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Posted: November 08 2012 at 21:38 |
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Topjukes,
Good on you.. you guys are doing the right thing. Thanks for having some integrity and going against the digital grain. If you don't mind me asking.. did you keep it pure from tape to pressing or did you drop it into Pro Tools and then press from the 24 bit master? or maybe you don't know what the plant did?
I would love to hear one of your releases..
feel free to PM me.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17973
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Posted: November 08 2012 at 21:39 |
Dean wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
But I do listen to both, although having the luxury of growing up more with the older prog, of course to me that will always be the preference....and of course on vinyl |
Is that a luxury? I grew up with Prog, I also grew up with the Beat explosion of the 60s and I grew up with synth pop of the 80s - I'm 55 and I'm still growing up. If just one artist is being innovative and creative in any given time period or any given era then surely that is enough, that is the real luxury, not the media you hear it on, but the artist that makes you sit up and listen.
Look back to 100-400 years ago and the literally thousands of classical composers that were producing scores and manuscripts for sonatas, concertos and symphonies that no one today will ever hear, even those like Louis Spohr who aren't part of the Now That's What I Call Classical Music #34 swathe of popular classics that passes for "Classical Music" now-a-days are reduced to being a side-note of passing interest to a select few. No one alive today had the "luxury" of growing up with that music, and since the only means of recording that music was by pen and ink, few will ever hear it. And it wasn't that much different 40 years ago when we had the "luxury" of only hearing the music that the likes of Tony Stratton Smith or Richard Branson decide we should hear and all those thousands of bands who failed to get a recording contract are now lost forever just because the music they were creating failed to impress one of maybe 100 people involved in signing bands to the few record labels that existed back then. And that was a crap situation regardless of how nostalgic you are or how darkly hued your rose-tinted spectacles are.
Now we get to hear everyone who ever made a noise that can be called music if we care to listen. That is the greatest luxury that digital recording can offer us - it removes the power from the record labels and the recording studios to dictate to us what we should listen to and what we can listen to. And only digital media can do this for us - sure a few people have the "luxury" of recording onto antique analogue equipment and then paying to have someone master that onto acetate for a limited production run of a few hundred vinyls, but for the rest of the aspiring musicians out there, (who are not as untalented or creatively vacuous as some would have us believe), digital recording, digital media and digital delivery/distribution has opened the magic box of earthly delights. And that is a luxury I will treasure for the rest of the time I spend on this planet growing up. |
Dude....why do you feel you need to turn my post into something negative, making it sound like I wrote something negative too.
I said nothing about classical music..sure there are a gazillion things we will never read, hear or see in our lifetimes, I am not that naive about history.
I'm not gonna ramble about what might have been had there been something more accesible 40yrs ago...it is what it is, its the past. Or semi-complain because someone in the music industry decided we should not hear an artist because they did not like it, so they did not financially support them.....And you are right this has been going on for longer than 40yrs.....probably a 1,000yrs.
Again, nothing I can do about it so I have no reason to complain about it...it is what it is, I accept it.
You also act like I don't appreciate creativity or talent, I'm not going to detail what I have on digital on my external HD, I have zero need to please outside my home. Do you realize how much jazz is played in New Orleans clubs on a nightly basis in the French Quarter that will never grace a CD or digital file on someones laptop? Quite a bit....I know it because living in New Orleans for sometime and going back a lot (since my wife is a Cajun Coon-A$$), we go as often as we can and sit and listen to jazz.
I am glad that you will treasure what and how you listen to music for the rest of your life, music is a wonderful art form. But don't insinuate only you know how to do this or your way is the gospel, because that is the way your post reads.
I have always agreed with your comments on the technology side of how sounds come about, as I have said before that is a black and white subject, 1+1 = 2....always.
But I really do not understand your post above other than negativity to what someone is saying is their preference/ideas/thoughts on how music is seen.
Time for me to take a break from this site.....(at least from a posting position).
Have a great evening/day...
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Aquiring the Taste
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 23 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 68
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Posted: November 09 2012 at 04:12 |
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I've never understood the quantity over quality theory, but we all have different expectations & priorities.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 09 2012 at 04:41 |
Aquiring the Taste wrote:
I've never understood the quantity over quality theory, but we all have different expectations & priorities.
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How do you mean? Do you mean the number of releases? If so then are you happy to let some label exec make that choice for you?
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What?
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Aquiring the Taste
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 23 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 68
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Posted: November 09 2012 at 04:48 |
Topjukes wrote:
Here at Plane Groovy we've released a number of Prog albums on heavyweight vinyl - with universally positive feedback. The really heartening aspect of this is that, having listened to our releases, people are then going back and revisiting their old vinyl collections - in a hugely positive way. This makes me very happy! |
Music to my ears, may I wish you every success 
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: November 09 2012 at 04:48 |
Catcher10 wrote:
*snip*
Time for me to take a break from this site.....(at least from a posting position).
Have a great evening/day... |
I didn't re4ad it as an attack on you. He took your comment as a springboard point for a point of view that I actually think is valid.
Edited by Snow Dog - November 09 2012 at 04:55
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 09 2012 at 12:11 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Catcher10 wrote:
*snip*
Time for me to take a break from this site.....(at least from a posting position).
Have a great evening/day... |
I didn't re4ad it as an attack on you. He took your comment as a springboard point for a point of view that I actually think is valid. |
 it wasn't an attack, but if that is how it was received then that is how it was received. Sure I took exception at the "luxury" comment, but I am older than José and do not see it as a luxury, so cannot see how that is an attack.
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What?
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7868
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Posted: November 09 2012 at 14:14 |
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14573
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Posted: November 09 2012 at 14:32 |
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Topjukes
Forum Newbie
Joined: November 13 2009
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9
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Posted: November 09 2012 at 14:35 |
Surrealist wrote:
Topjukes,Good on you.. you guys are doing the right thing. Thanks for having some integrity and going against the digital grain. If you don't mind me asking.. did you keep it pure from tape to pressing or did you drop it into Pro Tools and then press from the 24 bit master? or maybe you don't know what the plant did?I would love to hear one of your releases.. feel free to PM me.
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Thanks for the support!
As an example, the upcoming Big Big Train release is being pressed from 24-bit masters. The recent echolyn album was mastered at 88.2khz and sounds breathtaking. I'll basically use the best quality source I can find - currently looking at the tapes for a couple of pretty high profile releases.
I have a wish list as long as your arm of albums I'd like to see on vinyl, and this was my original aim - to see albums on vinyl which had only previously been available on CD. I've been delighted to see how quickly we've become involved with brand-new releases, and really heartened by the feedback we're getting.
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www.planegroovy.com - for the music you always wanted to hear on vinyl!
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progbethyname
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 30 2012
Location: HiFi Headmania
Status: Offline
Points: 7868
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Posted: November 09 2012 at 14:46 |
Right you are Mr. Octopus. It's all relative to the choice and tastes in the listener for what type of sound he or she desires. I'm a 24bit 96Khtz man myself. I just really enjoy the polished clean high res sound that this format exhibits. It also really suits my listening tastes cause I like to listen to my music really really Loud and distortion free sound is what I get with 24/96k at high volume levels. No crackle and no pop for me!!
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18146
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Posted: November 11 2012 at 12:00 |
Aquiring the Taste wrote:
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Some weeks ago I bought a copy of Gentle Giant - In a Glass House on 180gm vinyl & it sounds nothing like my original U K. copy. Gone are the spacial qualities, seperation & dynamic range of the original, it is a louder & puchier, with the rythm section pushed so far forward in the mix & the rest of instuments so crouded, that I couldn't listen to it.. On examination, in small print on the back cover, I found the reason ''Re-Mastered from the Original1/4 inch tapes 2010".
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It was the same thing with Pink Floyd, Beatles, Rolling Stones and many others ... the American version was a copy of a copy and stunk ... and of course, the "remasters" were just like the original English pressings!
Money ... money ... I have yet to hear a "remaster" that is worth half its value!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18146
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Posted: November 11 2012 at 12:01 |
Dean wrote:
Kick Out The Clams
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NOOOOOO ... magnificent version of a Carpenters song ... funny too!
Besides, you can make a heck of Clam Chowder with it!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
the importance of analog sound in prog
