The future of the GOP

Epignosis wrote: Can you demonstrate that most poor people can manage wealth?

No, but the great thing is that I didn't claim to know whether or not most poor people can manage wealth. You on the other hand did, so I want to see some evidence.

The Doctor wrote: Epignosis wrote: HarbouringTheSoul wrote: Epignosis wrote: Most poor people cannot manage money and never will. That's a ludicrous and offensive generalization. It isn't ludicrous, and I don't mind offending people. Managing wealth is like maintaining an automobile or keeping up a website.  Some people have that skill, but most people don't and never will. Can you demonstrate that most poor people can manage wealth? You used to jump my s**t every time I made generalizations like that about the wealthy or about rednecks, but it's ok for you to do it, eh?  Not only that, but we are required to prove the negative of your assertion to argue against it.

I usually give you statistics, but you ignore them.  Thought I'd speak your language this time. 

Gamemako wrote: Epignosis wrote: Can you demonstrate that most poor people can manage wealth? Can you demonstrate that they can't? Nope. They don't have any wealth to manage because they're poor. The only group you could make any inference from are those who move from higher class to lower class, and while they outnumber those with upward class mobility, the reasons may have nothing to do with wealth management skills.

Thanks for answering your own question, but you are wrong.

Dean answered for me.

Dean wrote: Q: How do you get good at anything? A: Practice.   Of course poor people can't manage something they've never had because they've never had any wealth to practice the art of managing it with. What they can manage is the megre amount of money they do have, but by no stretch can you call that wealth. Of course they'll spend any little surplus there is on luxuries, who wouldn't. Even rich buggers with more wealth than they know what to do with have "bitchin TVs" ...

People who have never driven a car also tend to suck at driving cars.  Sorry.  Maybe I need some statistics on that before people here believe me

HarbouringTheSoul wrote: Epignosis wrote: Can you demonstrate that most poor people can manage wealth? No, but the great thing is that I didn't claim to know whether or not most poor people can manage wealth. You on the other hand did, so I want to see some evidence.

Most poor people cannot manage wealth because most people cannot manage wealth.  See above.

Saying so is no more offensive than saying most people cannot fix a television set and keep it working.

Most people couldn't make that there.

See how offensive I am being?

Epignosis wrote: Thanks for answering your own question, but you are wrong. Dean answered for me.

Dean has data demonstrating that poor people cannot effectively manage wealth now, let alone with training? Perhaps I missed that.

Gamemako wrote: Epignosis wrote: Thanks for answering your own question, but you are wrong. Dean answered for me. Dean has data demonstrating that poor people cannot effectively manage wealth now, let alone with training? Perhaps I missed that.

Adding more variables can fix anything.  I could be a star athlete later if only I had more training, right?  I could be a wonderful actor if only I had the right training in the right place and with the right director to notice me, yeah?

Epignosis wrote: Adding more variables can fix anything.  I could be a star athlete later if only I had more training, right?  I could be a wonderful actor if only I had the right training in the right place and with the right director to notice me, yeah?

First, you've still not shown anything demonstrating that wealthy people, no matter how much practice they have, are better money-managers than inexperienced poor. Second, you're a damn fool if you think anything is meaningful without controlling for obvious variables like experience. That's control for existing variables, not add new uncontrolled variables. Third, if you want to be really specific about it, you said "cannot manage money", which is flatly nonsense -- they are quite capable of doing so, whether effectively or not. So that's pretty well false, if you want to go just by what you've said. The alternative is a controlled, testable hypothesis:  "The poor cannot manage money as well as wealthy people with equal levels of experience", which is a nice, easily-testable hypothesis for which you still have no data and which would generally not be helpful to your cause.


Edited by Gamemako - November 08 2012 at 20:22

Epignosis wrote: Dean answered for me. Dean wrote: Q: How do you get good at anything? A: Practice.   Of course poor people can't manage something they've never had because they've never had any wealth to practice the art of managing it with. What they can manage is the megre amount of money they do have, but by no stretch can you call that wealth. Of course they'll spend any little surplus there is on luxuries, who wouldn't. Even rich buggers with more wealth than they know what to do with have "bitchin TVs" ...       People who have never driven a car also tend to suck at driving cars.  Sorry.  Maybe I need some statistics on that before people here believe me

Edited by Dean - November 08 2012 at 20:42

Dean wrote: Epignosis wrote: Dean answered for me. Dean wrote: Q: How do you get good at anything? A: Practice.   Of course poor people can't manage something they've never had because they've never had any wealth to practice the art of managing it with. What they can manage is the megre amount of money they do have, but by no stretch can you call that wealth. Of course they'll spend any little surplus there is on luxuries, who wouldn't. Even rich buggers with more wealth than they know what to do with have "bitchin TVs" ...       People who have never driven a car also tend to suck at driving cars.  Sorry.  Maybe I need some statistics on that before people here believe me I did not answer for you.   Epignosis wrote: Most poor people cannot manage money and never will. People who get the opportunity to practice driving a car will get better at it. This we know because there is a driving proficiency examination to test that. I imagine there could be a few gifted people who could learn to drive a car by watching rich folk being chauffeured around in limos, but I think they would qualify as being a statistical anomaly.   Poor people manage money everyday and if I were to make a rash generalisation I would say they could probably manage a budget far better than people who don't worry about where next month's rent is coming from. Of course some of them get into debt, and wealthy people get into debt too - it's just a matter of scale - and some of them do by "bitchin TVs" when they have a few hundred bucks spare, just as a wealthy person would by a Lamborghini or a second home when they have a few thousand bucks spare - it's just a matter of scale, not bad money management.

I never said poor people have the opportunity to practice managing wealth.  I said poor people don't have the skills to manage wealth most of the time.  There are a few people who have never tried but manage wealth very well.

I never said that the poor cannot "manage money."  I have been poor but have been good at managing mere money.  I have never managed wealth.

When some of you can use a damn dictionary, then maybe we can move forward.  Hmm?

mon·ey/ˈmənē/

Noun:

A current medium of exchange in the form of coins and banknotes; coins and banknotes collectively.

wealth/welTH/

Noun:

An abundance of valuable possessions or money. The state of being rich; material prosperity.

Edited by Epignosis - November 08 2012 at 20:48

thellama73 wrote: Most poor people are really bad at speaking French (unless they are from France.) OMG offensive!

Logan, most people are bad at speaking French!

Evidently, we have a few participants here who think that most poor people can manage businesses, real estate, and investments.

I bet the posters can't even do that.