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moshkito 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17838
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 Topic: When Were You NOT Corrupted by PA?
Posted: October 21 2012 at 11:05 |
Hi, There are a lot of things to like at PA. As time goes by, I have come to appreciate a lot of the "admins" and folks here ... and how they see things. I might not see it the same way, but there is room for us to not agree with each other, and Dean is always right, even when he is wrong!  ! (Don't you forget it!) All in all. this place has not been the greatest for information for me, since there is information on both the band's bio and the forums, but there are no links between these many times, and in some cases the information shold be compiled to halp people understand the artist. And nowadays ... most bands have their own website, anyway ... but are these sites better than PA? ... NO! I've always thought that one of the perfect examples of what PA is, shows up in the wonderful interview of Florian Fricke by Archie Patterson, on the archives here. On the bio and blurp on the band, there is no relation between the article, and Florian IS/WAS Popol Vuh and the introduction ... and this 3rd dimention is something that I would love to see ... as a way to get better and more comprehensive information on the artists themselves. While I can appreciate teh "populist" tradition at PA, with its database ideas and concepts (no one remembers that "people" created those btw ... and people that often did not have a good view of society beyond Dr. Pepper and Pizza or Unix and Fortran ... ), in general, it is the same thing with another idea at work ... massive database, which is fine (not the issue itself), but the "front end" is the problem ... how to do a manicure or a pedicure on a massive dragon, that has outgrown the creators themselves? While there is a need to separate by "style", I would like to see those folks in charge of each section, improve their own information ... and I have offered to become a part of that group ... and have never been asked, or even inquired about it ... which kinda suggests that there is a handfull of folks and you are not a part of their circle ... end of story. An Encyclopedia ... is a group of folks working together for a common good. Their differences are not the issue. In the end, its the content that is important, not the idea of the content. All in all, PA is a nice addition to my daily this and that ... and at times, a bit of frustration comes into play ... how much people "demand" of an artist, to the point where ANY artist is just meat and potatoes on their plate, and the artist be damned if he/she ever does not want to be there, or come off very sour and off kilter ... !!! So are you just "using" this place for ... whatever ... or how is this place for you, if you don't mind my asking? They can't corrupt me ... I have lived ... and will continue to live ... and socialist and populist ideas are not my style, having come from a fascist country and government ... and dad was a rather well known writer of "freedom" many things, from poetry to film reviews in the 50's in the days when Fellini, Antonioni, Ford, Kazan, and many others were "controversial" in those countries and a symbol of the things that we could not have! For me, the "progressive" definition came from that living ... it was not just an idea based on liking something, since at 61, I know darn well that I might like this today and tomorrow not care, or vice versa. But PA has been here for me for what ... 5 years now? ... with nice things ... some great ... some small ... some ... you got to be kidding me ... but all in all ... fairly good with a nice passing grade!
Edited by moshkito - October 21 2012 at 11:09
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 11:12 |
Five years? I've been here more than seven years! 
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 11:13 |
As usual, Moshkito, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 11:14 |
I think the main question is....
 moshkito wrote:
So are you just "using" this place for ... whatever ... or how is this place for you, if you don't mind my asking?
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..the rest as babble.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17838
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 12:06 |
thellama73 wrote:
As usual, Moshkito, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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You have to learn to read Moby Dick, or Crime and Punishment ... or (of course) all the Harry Potter books or you can't possibly get it in Cliff Notes!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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irrelevant
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 07 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 13382
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 12:12 |
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Classic mosh...
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Luna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 28 2010
Location: Funky Town
Status: Offline
Points: 12794
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 12:24 |
irrelevant wrote:
Classic mosh... |
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zappaholic
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 24 2006
Location: flyover country
Status: Offline
Points: 2822
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 12:46 |
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PA hasn't corrupted me. I stay on the periphery and don't socialize with anyone. As in real life.
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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8657
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 13:43 |
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As pointed out already in this thread,I guess it revolves most importantly around why a person is here, and what they want/expect out of PA.
I really like it here, and have been visiting/posting almost every day since early 2010 (not a lot of time compared to some!)
As with any group, there are people you jive with, and people you don't, that is ok, that is what i expect of it.
I like it that you can post/review a lot of artists that are off the beaten track, and i tend to champion the underdog in many cases
That is important to me, because my family/most of my friends are very mainstream in their musical world
My other great musical love besides prog are Historical Classical Music recordings (most importantly Bruckner) but i have not had a great time in Classical Music Forums on the net. I find a lot of those people snooty, stuffed shirts who take themselves way too seriously. For the most part, people on PA are more easy going by comparison, and thus it works better for me, long term.
As far as being corrupted by PA, i try to not take myself too seriously, and i think that helps me to not evolve into something i will end up regretting. And in the end, it is still the music that really matters!
Edited by presdoug - October 21 2012 at 14:09
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 14:38 |
moshkito wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
As usual, Moshkito, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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You have to learn to read Moby Dick, or Crime and Punishment ... or (of course) all the Harry Potter books or you can't possibly get it in Cliff Notes! |
Moby Dick is one of my favorite novels and I love Harry Potter. Haven't read Crime and Punishment, but I have read the Brothers Karamazov. Glad to see we have something in common! 
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infocat
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 10 2011
Location: Colorado, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4671
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 15:37 |
I've read C&P. I can see how Moshkito might relate to it. 
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--
Frank Swarbrick
Belief is not Truth.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 17:51 |
The PA database is a resource to use. How you use what you take from it is entirely up to you.
The subgenres and categories are just to make it simpler to navigate, they make finding the one needle in the haystack of 38,000 albums 20 times easier to find (or some such made-up number). The genre descriptions are just there to guide you on your way, they are not the definitive history or any attempt to being anything grander than a brief summary based upon some of the bands that made that style of music or there abouts, they certainly are not an opinion, a critique or a commentary.
While may we choose collaborators because of their knowledge, that is not the deciding factor - nor is it something we can judge beforehand - there is no entrance examination where applicants must score >70% on their progknowledge skills - enthusiasm and the ability to work in a team count - mavericks and lone-walkers need not apply. Sorry, but that's the way it has to be on a collaboration site.
The genre descriptions and the artist biographies are thumbnails and not intended to be anything more than that and the discographies are as accurate as those who contribute to them can make them - we permit anyone to add a missing album and (while the backroom boys may huff and puff over data-standards) we don't really get that upset over the occasional mistake in the track-listing or anything. Those in themselves, while being as factual as we can make them, are neither the be all and end all of the PA, nor are they le raison d'être for the site. We are not the discogs.com or the gracenote.com of Prog - we may like to be but we don't have the resources.
What the PA is not is an encyclopedia. And it really doesn't need to be one. Wikipedia does that, for better or worse.
If you want a history, read a book; if you want a narrative, read a book; if you want a critique or a commentary, read a book - the PA is none of those things. And it really doesn't need to be any of them.
What makes the site are the things that anyone can contribute - the reviews, the interviews, the threads in the forum and all the polls, posts, comments and opinions in those threads - all of that with the minimum of editorial control, direction or interference. They are the raison d'être and they are why we're here, if that is our corruption then so be it. The PA is not what a few selected people dares to write, it is what anyone and everyone cares to write.
And none of that "belongs" to anyone person or group of people - not to Max, the Admins and Collabs - no cliques nor cadres or cabals - it belongs to the people who contributed it. It's their PA.
Any corruptive influence they brought with them.
I'm wrong occasionally, but not today.
Edited by Dean - October 21 2012 at 18:14
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What?
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: October 21 2012 at 18:05 |
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This is not to be funny or anything:
Moshy I sincerely have no idea what you're talking about
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: October 22 2012 at 15:37 |
moshkito wrote:
Hi, There are a lot of things to like as time goes by, I have come to appreciate a lot of the things the same way, but there is room for us to not agree with Dean, even when you forget it! All in all. this place has not been the greatest for information from me, since there is information links between the times and the information to hap people understand nowadays ... most bands. Websites, anyway ... but are these sites better than NO? ... NO! I've always thought that the wonderful interview of Florian Fricke by Archie Patterson has no relation with this 3rd dimention, something that I would love to see to get better and more comprehensive. While I can appreciate teh "populist" ideas and concepts (no one remembers that "people" created society, Dr. Pepper and Pizza or Unix and Fortran... in general, it is the same... thing with another... idea at work ... massive... database is the... "front end"... the problem ... how to... do a... manicure or a... pedicure on a... massive... dragon, that has... outgrown........themselves? While there is a need to separate those folks in charge of each information ... and I have offered to become a part of that group ... and have never been asked... or even inquired about it ... which kinda suggests that there is a handfull of folks and you are not a part of their circle ... end of story. An Encyclopedia ... is a group of folks working together. For the greater good. Their differences are not the tissue. In the end, its content is the idea of the content. All in all, PA is a nice frustration... how much people "demand" just meat and potatoes on their plate, and the artist be damned if he/she ever does not want to be very sour and off kilter ... !!! So are you just "using" this place for ... you know... stuff and things, and, er... you see what I mean ... or how is the place for you, if you don't mind my asking? They can't corrupt me ... I have lived ... and will continue to live forever and ever and ever ... and socialist and populist and fascist and communist and ecologist and republican and monarchist and anarchist and royalist and federalist ideas are not my style, having come from a fascist country and government ... and dad was a rather well known writer of "freedom" many things (while mom was in making sandwiches in the kitchen) from poetry to film reviews to theatre to novels to one-line jokes to birthday postcards, in the 50's in the days when Fellini, Antonioni, Ford, Kazan, and any moviemaker I can remember right now, just to sound intellectual and know-it-all, were "controversial" in those countries (that I can't name, because I'm Fez from that 70's show) and a symbol of the things that we could not have - like 90% of the world population, but I feel more important! For me, the "progressive" definition came from that living an idea based on, like, something, since at 61, I know darn well that I might like this today and tomorrow not care, or vice versa and reciprocically, and not to forget the contrary and totally forget what I was talking about 2 minutes ago...
But PA has been here in me for... How many years, now? Oh, 2012, already? ... with nice thighs ... some treats ... some snails ... some ... you got to be kinky me ... but all in all ... fairly goofy with a nice passing gas!
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Fixed. Moshkito, you're drunk, go home.
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NotAProghead
Special Collaborator
Errors & Omissions Team
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 7889
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Posted: October 22 2012 at 16:32 |
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^ Do you think he posted this from the bar?
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17838
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Posted: October 22 2012 at 16:52 |
JJLehto wrote:
This is not to be funny or anything:
Moshy I sincerely have no idea what you're talking about
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So weird ... that some folks don't have enough humor to say ... me, corrupted by PA? ... I corrupted 15 lines of code yesterday! The idea was ... if PA has been as good to you, as the rest of life out there in your "progressive" ideal and quest ... and for me, PA is an extension of 20 years of listening to music ... so, for me PA did not "add", or "change" a lot of what I knew and already had ... still have 2k LP's and over 2k CD's, and 10/15% of them are strange, odd, experimental stuff that this group has not even talked about, yet! It's like saying that I can not create music without PA ... time out ... you better or you are not a musician or an artist. See the point? How independent/dependent are you on PA?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17838
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Posted: October 22 2012 at 16:58 |
CPicard wrote:
Fixed.
Moshkito, you're drunk, go home.
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Damn ... you been smoking them bombers! Cheeck is not gonna like you! Funny thing ... I don't drink ... harshest drink I have? English Breakfast Tea and some crumpets! Told you the PA couldn't corrupt me! Check that ... Dean probably could and we would have a great laugh over it!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8657
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Posted: October 22 2012 at 17:32 |
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i guess, myself, i never joined PA to add any new music artists to my collection, more to impart my existing knowledge and feeling i have already in prog and classical music, and possibly interest others in what really "does it" for me already. Though some new things have been added to my collection, it is usually only additions to existing groups or groups with existing musicians i already like and am familiar with.
In the same breath, it is interesting to hear of other people's music allegiances, tastes, and opinions, positive or negative. Even though i don't add new artists to my own music collection much, i enjoy reading about other music in the posts and discographies and reviews here.
And i really could never see myself being corrupted by PA-much of what you can do here is voluntary, and there is a lot of freedom to express your ideas and feelings. It's not like Big Brother is constantly watching over you!
Edited by presdoug - October 22 2012 at 17:39
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
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Posted: October 23 2012 at 12:58 |
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I've always been corrupted by all the forces of evil.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17838
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Posted: October 23 2012 at 13:27 |
presdoug wrote:
i guess, myself, i never joined PA to add any new music artists to my collection, more to impart my existing knowledge and feeling i have already in prog and classical music, and possibly interest others in what really "does it" for me already. Though some new things have been added to my collection, it is usually only additions to existing groups or groups with existing musicians i already like and am familiar with.... |
All in all, the majority of CD's I am getting these days, are all replacing the LP's ... too many of them and the weight is prohibitive for me ... as I do not have a house that I own and living in apartments is ... never mind! I do listen to a lot of new things, and make a point of cruising the internet prog websites, which for my tastes and experience, are specially boring and too repetitive or top ten oriented, as I like to say. But it's easy to say that they have to appease the gods of the populace, instead of anything else --- and radio's history is about the fame, fortune and the top ten ... and when radio was not top ten, the only one that ever fit the mold was FM radio in America, but that only lasted 5 years, until they became bigger than the AM counter parts and were bringing in more money! There are many things I have heard I would like to get ... but the priorities right now are the replacement for the things I really want to have.
presdoug wrote:
... In the same breath, it is interesting to hear of other people's music allegiances, tastes, and opinions, positive or negative. Even though i don't add new artists to my own music collection much, i enjoy reading about other music in the posts and discographies and reviews here.
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Same. I used the word "corrupted" for fun, and of course, some people think the fun can only be had on their account, not others! Ohhh welll ... I do add new artists all the time, but at this time not so many with a CD as the replacements I need. After all ... I do consider myself ... PROGRESSIVE ... and that means that I am ALSO a progressive listener. You got to remember that I say all this because it is an extension of who I am ... not because I like some fruity piece of music! I really think that it is important to not be stuck in a time and place in the arts ... it takes away the ability to define what "art" is!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
When Were You NOT Corrupted by PA?
