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ProgShine View Drop Down
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Points: 1256 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 20:46
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by ProgShine ProgShine wrote:


There's a inexplicable force in, for example, listen to THAT album when you're travelling by bus to that place you really want to go.

Or for example, you and your brother singing out loud with that cd in your car.

Music's life and life is happening all around us. Stop seeing it as numbers and charts and let's have a better life,  Catcher10 (José) and rogerthat already agree with me.

Cmon guys, let's ride the train of music LOL with no boundaries, that's Prog, not a format. Tongue
How can I explain this? ... I don't see it as numbers and charts. I never have and I never will and my life is good enough thank you.
 
(I'm probably not being clear enough.)
 
Music is music. Technical specs are Technical specs. How things work is how things work. What you like is what you like.
 
The whole point of all of the numbers and charts and long-winded technical explanations that fly over the heads of non-technical people is to show that what people find to be "best" or "far superior" is NOT based upon science or numbers or charts, that it is simply a matter of personal likes and preferences. If you like the sound of music played through a digital system it is not because it is "better" and if you like the sound of music played through an analogue system it is not because it is "better" - it's just what you prefer. This is the only point I have been making since my first post in this thread on Page 1.
 
If you don't understand number and charts or how things work then there's nothing I can do about that but that's not a problem because it doesn't matter whether you do or not. If you don't like them then don't read them. If you like music for what it is without "hearing" the technology that supports it then science and technology has done its job, and the numbers and charts have proven their worth to those who do understand them, because the people who do understand them are the people who invent, design and build this stuff.
 
 


Always knew that, it's just like, someone that says 80's music (New Wave, Post Punk, Jangle Pop and so on) is the best ever. It's not based in facts, it's based on how the person feel about that and that music was part of his/her life in that specific years.

Dean, to tell you the truth, I understand why you're posting about tech talk, I realise you're trying to 'prove' (not really prove, I know) that it's not about data, it's about ears and preference, the things I read here says you have the knowledgement, but will not stop listening something cause 'the other format is better'.

I was just trying to light down a bit, but I guess my emotional aspects on music will not make people think like me, am I right? Wink

So I guess I should leave the topic for a good cause and go to listen my Gonzaguinha CDs Cool Smile


Edited by ProgShine - October 21 2012 at 20:48
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 20:03
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I thought that comment was directed to Surrealist because he's the one who seems to find it mighty difficult to listen to music on certain mediums.
I'm the only one who posts numbers and charts. Wink 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 20:01
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

^^^ Have to say though that I have completely stopped listening to music on the commute, viz, on headphones/earphones.  It's nice to cut out all the noise and just zero in on the details but it's not so good for the ears and that I am afraid is a much less subjective statement than many made on this thread.   The flipside is I use the speakers a lot more to listen to my CDs than I used to.
I stopped using ear-buds several years ago and I seldom used enclosed headphones anymore. At my age I can't risk damaging my hearing. Ouch
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 19:59
I thought that comment was directed to Surrealist because he's the one who seems to find it mighty difficult to listen to music on certain mediums.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 19:55
Originally posted by ProgShine ProgShine wrote:


There's a inexplicable force in, for example, listen to THAT album when you're travelling by bus to that place you really want to go.

Or for example, you and your brother singing out loud with that cd in your car.

Music's life and life is happening all around us. Stop seeing it as numbers and charts and let's have a better life,  Catcher10 (José) and rogerthat already agree with me.

Cmon guys, let's ride the train of music LOL with no boundaries, that's Prog, not a format. Tongue
How can I explain this? ... I don't see it as numbers and charts. I never have and I never will and my life is good enough thank you.
 
(I'm probably not being clear enough.)
 
Music is music. Technical specs are Technical specs. How things work is how things work. What you like is what you like.
 
The whole point of all of the numbers and charts and long-winded technical explanations that fly over the heads of non-technical people is to show that what people find to be "best" or "far superior" is NOT based upon science or numbers or charts, that it is simply a matter of personal likes and preferences. If you like the sound of music played through a digital system it is not because it is "better" and if you like the sound of music played through an analogue system it is not because it is "better" - it's just what you prefer. This is the only point I have been making since my first post in this thread on Page 1.
 
If you don't understand number and charts or how things work then there's nothing I can do about that but that's not a problem because it doesn't matter whether you do or not. If you don't like them then don't read them. If you like music for what it is without "hearing" the technology that supports it then science and technology has done its job, and the numbers and charts have proven their worth to those who do understand them, because the people who do understand them are the people who invent, design and build this stuff.
 
 


Edited by Dean - October 21 2012 at 19:58
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 19:54
^^^ Have to say though that I have completely stopped listening to music on the commute, viz, on headphones/earphones.  It's nice to cut out all the noise and just zero in on the details but it's not so good for the ears and that I am afraid is a much less subjective statement than many made on this thread.   The flipside is I use the speakers a lot more to listen to my CDs than I used to.
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Points: 1256 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 19:31
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Originally posted by ProgShine ProgShine wrote:

Something came to my mind just now and I had to come back here to ask. To all of you.

Let's say you're on your mom's house, auntie, neighbour, store, supermarket, whatever. One of your favorite songs/band starts to play on the radio or in the tv, a normal tv.

You can't enjoy yourself and the moment with your favorite song because the audio is inferior??
 
I can easily....I watch Palladia TV all the time and watch concerts and music programs on my normal tv and enjoy the songs very much. Also in my car with all the road noise and such, I enjoy my car CDs alot and I airdrum just as much as the guy in the VW-Rush commercial ClapLOL.
 
But when I want to enjoy that music in a calm atmosphere, no interuptions, no car noise or TV commercials......I have a system that does that for me with the added enjoyment of gatefold covers and liner notes....sometimes sitting down with a nice frothy beverage.



There's a inexplicable force in, for example, listen to THAT album when you're travelling by bus to that place you really want to go.

Or for example, you and your brother singing out loud with that cd in your car.

Music's life and life is happening all around us. Stop seeing it as numbers and charts and let's have a better life,  Catcher10 (José) and rogerthat already agree with me.

Cmon guys, let's ride the train of music LOL with no boundaries, that's Prog, not a format. Tongue
https://progshinerecords.bandcamp.com
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 18:00
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

My apologies to surrealist for accidental shoddy quote work. Whoops
Yeah, he was well upset that you made your subjective opinion look like it came from me. LOL
 
 
Clown


Edited by Dean - October 21 2012 at 18:01
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Points: 7868 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 16:35
Originally posted by progbethyname progbethyname wrote:

Hey. It's sunday. Why don't you guys take a day off. Grace your ears with your favourite sound set up and will. Onto us to debate Monday. Lol. You guys slay me!!!! Also. My apologies to surrealist for accidental shoddy quote work. Whoops


Whoops again. Goddam I products. Meant to say continue this debate on Monday. Lol have a good day all!
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Points: 7868 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 16:33
Hey. It's sunday. Why don't you guys take a day off. Grace your ears with your favourite sound set up and will. Onto us to debate Monday. Lol. You guys slay me!!!! Also. My apologies to surrealist for accidental shoddy quote work. Whoops
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 13:19
The following isn't important in the general scheme of things, efficiency doesn't affect the sound at all so it is irrelevant to the analogue vs digital discussions, but unqualified statements irk me somewhat:
Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:


A proper tube amp is MUCH more efficient than any solid state amp will ever be. 
Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

NAD solid state is no where near the efficiency of a proper tube amp. It takes way too much voltage to get sound out of the speakers.
Please explain this point - you've made it twice without any qualification. What exactly do you mean by this statement?

Edited by Dean - October 21 2012 at 13:20
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 12:58
Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

I was over in San Francisco last year and had a chance to listen to a Shindo set up... which is super high end tube amp analog stuff and speakers.  $100,000 audiophile craziness stuff.  It was the best thing I have ever heard.  I was admiring one of the amps they had in there and noticed an invoice sitting next to it that said "Walter Becker" on it.  Guys like Becker know.
Maybe Justin Timberlake listens to digital in his home. 


Good for Walter Becker. Justin Timberlake can afford to buy whatever he likes and he probably does - I would not put it past him to also spend $100,000 on an audiophile system just because he can. I fail to see the relevance of any of this.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 12:50
"It might get Loud" show Jimmy Page in front of two walls of floor-to-ceiling shelving containing LPs, 45s, CD and cassettes. Yes he has a lot of LPs - many of us do, but he also has CDs and cassettes. You don't get a good look at the turntable he's using but it looks no more audiophile than a Garrard SP25 MkIV to me. (it's not a SP25 btw)

Edited by Dean - October 21 2012 at 12:54
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 12:33
Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

Are you that desperate to win an argument? I still have my large collection of records too. I don't play them though.

I would bet you have a crap analog set up.. otherwise you would be saying.. I have a large collection of CD's collecting dust.. but I still have them to use as coasters when guests come over.

Learn to quote properly.

If I had a superb analogue set up I would also have superb CD set up so still play Cds more. They are more revealing. They hold more detail.
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Points: 232 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 12:22
Are you that desperate to win an argument? I still have my large collection of records too. I don't play them though.

I would bet you have a crap analog set up.. otherwise you would be saying.. I have a large collection of CD's collecting dust.. but I still have them to use as coasters when guests come over.
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Points: 232 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 12:20
I was over in San Francisco last year and had a chance to listen to a Shindo set up... which is super high end tube amp analog stuff and speakers.  $100,000 audiophile craziness stuff.  It was the best thing I have ever heard.  I was admiring one of the amps they had in there and noticed an invoice sitting next to it that said "Walter Becker" on it.  Guys like Becker know.
Maybe Justin Timberlake listens to digital in his home. 


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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 12:14
^Are you that desperate to win an argument? I still have my large collection of records too. I don't play them though.

Edited by Snow Dog - October 21 2012 at 12:15
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Points: 232 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 12:11
Speaking of Jimmy Page,  I assume most here have seen "It might get Loud" and is it any coincidence that Page is obviously a vinyl lover?  His home library was wall to wall vinyl records.  So I don't think it's a stretch to suggest Page is an audiophile who understands that vinyl sounds better as a listening experience.

He also understands that the masses buy digital music and from a business standpoint, he will profit more from digital releases and DVD which he has done all the way to the bank. 

But he sits home and listens to vinyl when HE has the option.  "Since I've been Loving Vinyl"
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 11:54
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

When I listen to vinyl I cannot hear any hiss, it does not exist enough to hear it. When there is hiss on CD it is heard easily....Why? Because you are right, you hear everything on a CD.
 
I hope that my "hiss" comment did not get wasted. I only used it in the context of live performance. I have never, ever, heard it in LP or CD ... kinda strange to read this line above!
 
But in many ways, has not "mastering" been about cleaning things up to the point where even the Hiss gets removed, regardless of the previous process?

Listen to "Since I've Been Loving You" by Zeppelin on "Remasters". Not only can you hear the hiss of the master tape, you can here the squeak of  the drum pedal.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2012 at 11:40
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

MUST spend $1000?? Confused.......Don't understand that and you are misleading readers with that. What someone spends is a personal decision.
It's a running gag in this thread José - according to someone who prefers not to give his real name if I can't hear the difference with my Thorens and NAD then I must spend $1000 on a different TT and some valve amplifier that was sold in kit form in 1963 so that I can.
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

 
Whatever the added bits do or take away it seems it does not matter because nobody is buying them in bulk...One of my few hi-rez files is Yes-Fragile....Its not any better sonically than my redbook CD. It is better than my original LP, but not for double the price.
And for me it is a logistical issue as I do not like moving my laptop and connecting to my ext DAC just to listen to 24/96....That is too much work for no sonic return to my ears. So again until the digital audiophile people figure out how to deliver that medium to me better....Its work in progress at best.
And why put that much effort into making digital sound good eh? Tongue
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Have a great weekend!
Cheers, It's practically over now Cry But please enjoy the advantages of living further west than me. Wink
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