Grateful Dead for psych/space rock - Progressive Rock Music Forum

Author

Message

Topic Search

Topic Options

rushfan4

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66588

Posted: October 18 2012 at 08:08

AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258

Posted: October 18 2012 at 08:18

darkshade

Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964

Posted: October 18 2012 at 13:21

javier0889 wrote:

If Phish is allowed here, I can't see why the Dead aren't.

Hairy men with glasses who play ridiculously strange riffs is the definition of prog.

IF the Dead are added under a prog sub-genre, then Phish NEEDS to be moved from Prog-Related to an actual Prog sub-genre.

Actually, no matter what, Phish NEEDS to be moved from Prog-Related to an actual Prog sub-genre.

They're 100x times proggier than The Grateful Dead.

Edited by darkshade - October 18 2012 at 13:23

My Last.fm

Windhawk

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 11401

Posted: October 18 2012 at 13:46

Since this thread didn't die, might as well add a related issue to it that might interest some of the people discussing.

Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/

Atavachron View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65606

Posted: October 18 2012 at 17:49

AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Oh not these old geysers again! Ok one good album American Beauty ( I have it) and tinges of prog - but nothing worth adding them here.

sounds like you haven't heard the catalog

AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258

Posted: October 19 2012 at 05:05

Atavachron wrote:

AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Oh not these old geysers again! Ok one good album American Beauty ( I have it) and tinges of prog - but nothing worth adding them here.

sounds like you haven't heard the catalog

Worth pursuing further?

Jim Garten View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Retired Admin & Razor Guru

Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693

Posted: October 19 2012 at 06:34

AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Worth pursuing further?

As a sure fire cure for insomnia, sure!

Grateful Dead suggested again?

I remember the last time:

I for one am not clearing up the garden again!

Jon Lord 1941 - 2012

octopus-4

Special Collaborator

RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14550

Posted: October 19 2012 at 08:14

I think they're considered "west coast psych" by all the literature. That genre is psychedelic but not prog. I don't think that proto-prog for them would be a scandal. I don't know what to think of Phish, honestly. However things like if "a" is there than "b" should, have never worked here.

I often insist about Vangelis deserving to be in a full prog category.

I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution

Svetonio

Forum Senior Member

Joined: September 20 2010
Location: Serbia
Status: Offline
Points: 10213

Posted: October 19 2012 at 13:02

Windhawk wrote:

Since this thread didn't die, might as well add a related issue to it that might interest some of the people discussing.

I was sugested him.

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74363&KW=Mickey+Hart&PID=3994712#3994712

Atavachron View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65606

Posted: October 19 2012 at 20:49

Jim Garten wrote:

Grateful Dead suggested again?
I remember the last time:

I for one am not clearing up the garden again!

Come now it wasn't that bad-- that looks more like the Metallica Wars

Adams Bolero View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: January 07 2009
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 679

Posted: October 19 2012 at 22:31

The 23 minute psychedelic masterpiece that is Dark Star should be enough to justify their inclusion here. I can clearly hear the influence of the Grateful Dead in prog bands like Agitation Free.

''Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal.''

- Albert Camus

javier0889 View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: March 21 2010
Location: Chile
Status: Offline
Points: 170

Posted: October 20 2012 at 00:05

Adams Bolero wrote:

The 23 minute psychedelic masterpiece that is Dark Star should be enough to justify their inclusion here. I can clearly hear the influence of the Grateful Dead in prog bands like Agitation Free.

I think this is part of the problem. Dark Star was in fact a 2 min b side that transformed into this larger-than-life thing only live. Tons of bands did that sort of thing live in the 70s and they aren't prog. I think the prog aspect of GD was more present in their live gigs.

http://www.last.fm/user/javier0889

ChickenNugget View Drop Down

Forum Newbie

Joined: January 14 2013
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2

Posted: January 24 2013 at 15:33

Forget about the Dead being Prog rock, I'm a massive Deadhead and I would not think for a second that they are, BUT what I find absolutely sickening is that these guys are not even listed under Psychedelic / space rock.

Oh really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NtvoM6Sh_Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d55FciHtM9w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgXO4mVTa5g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72iVSo6iXz8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz4W4YThKOc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvRKsyAF-h8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJIS97uuSWY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuR5IEfbJcI

The requirements should not have to deal only with Studio albums.

Live Dead is exceeds all requirements and Anthem of the Sun as well.

What blows my mind is that there is not ONE SINGLE MENTION of The Dead on this whole entire website.

Kinda hard to listen to the above examples and not use the words psychedelic or space.

The above examples don't even scratch the surface either!!!

I don't get it...

"Grateful Dead were an American rock band formed in 1965 in Palo Alto, California.^[1]^[2] The band was known for its unique and eclectic style, which fused elements of rock, folk, bluegrass, blues, reggae, country, improvisational jazz, psychedelia, and space rock,^[3]^[4] and for live performances of long musical improvisation.^[5]^[6] "Their music," writes Lenny Kaye, "touches on ground that most other groups don't even know exists."^[7] These various influences were distilled into a diverse and psychedelic whole that made the Grateful Dead "the pioneering Godfathers of the jam band world."^[8]

"Often (both in performance and on recording) the Dead left room for exploratory, spacey soundscapes."

"purveyors of freely improvised space music," -- Blender Magazine, May 2003

""Dark Star," both in its title and in its structure (designed to incorporate improvisational exploration), is the perfect example of the kind of "space music" that the Dead are famous for.

This is THE band that helped pioneer this genre in the U.S.

Put em on the f**kin' list.

Edited by ChickenNugget - January 24 2013 at 15:35

Atavachron View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Online
Points: 65606

Posted: January 24 2013 at 21:15

^ I have argued both for and against the inclusion of the Dead, but remember our Space/Psych section is for progressive S/P, not just any. If you don't believe the Grateful Dead are progressive (as you stated up front) you can't logically request their inclusion on PA.

IMO the best place for the Dead would be Protoprog.

Sumdeus

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 23 2012
Location: SF Bay Area
Status: Offline
Points: 831

Posted: January 24 2013 at 21:24

they have studio songs that are definitely progressive such as Terrapin Station... I do agree that they fit best in protoprog, or maybe prog related. either way they definitely deserve mention somewhere considering some other bands that have their own pages on the site..

edit:posted before i read the whole thread and now before anyone else responds i would like to say yes i understand this post is literally what the other Dead heads have already stated...

Edited by Sumdeus - January 24 2013 at 21:30

Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys

Eria Tarka View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: December 17 2011
Location: BC, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 5856

Posted: January 24 2013 at 21:28

I think they would fit great in Proto.

DamoXt7942 View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Joined: October 15 2008
Location: Okayama, Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 17493

Posted: January 24 2013 at 21:32

Sadly they've been rejected again and again even for Prog-Related.
"Anthem Of The Sun" and "Terrapin Station" are the most progressive album of all their creations but I have no idea to add them.

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557

Posted: January 24 2013 at 22:05

Atavachron wrote:

^ I have argued both for and against the inclusion of the Dead, but remember our Space/Psych section is for progressive S/P, not just any. If you don't believe the Grateful Dead are progressive (as you stated up front) you can't logically request their inclusion on PA.

IMO the best place for the Dead would be Protoprog.

Not a fan of GD but I'm with you David,

Greatful Dead and the Bonzo Dog Doh Dah Band should be here in PROTO

Iván

octopus-4

Special Collaborator

RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams

Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14550

Posted: January 25 2013 at 01:19

Proto makes sense at least from a hystorical point of view, but there's plenty of less famous bands rejected for the same reasons

I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution

HarbouringTheSoul View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: May 21 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1199

Posted: January 25 2013 at 02:54

I am of the opinion that just about any 60s band worth a damn could be added to proto-prog or prog-related, but that doesn't mean all of them should. Reserve them for bands who either had a notable influence on prog artists or were regarded as part of the "progressive" scene at the time.