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ElephantTalk View Drop Down
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Points: 21 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Piano beginner question
    Posted: October 11 2012 at 03:57
I intend to start taking piano lessons, and I wanted to know if it's productive to practice with a cheap portable keyboard(up to 150$, like Casio CTK2000), or do you think that playing on anything less than an electronic piano(of a good brand) is a waste of time?

I do have a music room with a good piano in my Uni, where I would take lessons and would be able to practice, the problem is that because of high demand it won't always be available in regular hours, so if I can use a portable keyboard as an alternative that will not hurt my progress, it would be preferable.

Thanks for your help.
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mono View Drop Down
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Points: 652 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 05:16
Hello there,
I think starting with a cheap keyboard is no issue. Plus this Casio doesn't look too bad.
If you really want to learn the "instrument", then you'll have to switch to something closer to an acoustic piano eventually.

The longer you use this keyboard, the longer the adaptation period when you will switch to something better.
I think you can safely use this keyboard for 1 to 2 years to learn the basics before acquiring something better.

The risk of keeping this keyboard too long is mainly that your playing style will might have been 'molded' by the soft touch (not always a bad thing...), and it will take you more time to get used to the much larger 'dynamic' that is offered by a real piano for example...

Good luck to you!
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ElephantTalk View Drop Down
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Points: 21 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 05:34
Thanks, portable keyboard it is!

Though I think I might try to find a touch sensitive one for a bit more.
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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 07:30
I used to teach piano to kids, and I would say that any practice is better than no practice. However, the success you'll be able to achieve on a portable keyboard will be pretty limited compared to what you'd get from practicing on a real piano.

I think a portable one would be fine for the first month or so while you're just learning the basics, but after that having a real piano is pretty essential. Electronic is fine, but make sure it has weighted keys so it feels like the real thing.
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JS19 View Drop Down
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Points: 1321 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 08:25
Originally posted by ElephantTalk ElephantTalk wrote:

Thanks, portable keyboard it is!

Though I think I might try to find a touch sensitive one for a bit more.

Nononononono do NOT get a keyboard. The action is wrong, there's no sustain - it's like learning a completely different instrument. You won't learn the piano effectively.

If you can stretch to a second hand portable Clavinova or a digital piano that would be ideal, but whatever you DON'T get a keyboard.

Source: someone who made the exact mistake you're about to make and very much regretted it. Now a seasoned classical pianist  of 15 years Smile

Please don't waste your money!



Edited by JS19 - October 11 2012 at 08:27
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ElephantTalk View Drop Down
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Points: 21 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 08:36
OKOK!

Didn't buy anything yet, I just talked to a friend of mine who told me the same thing, that I'd be wasting my time.

I think I'll try my luck in the music room with a real piano for the time being, and later on I'll invest and buy a good one.

I looked for second hand deals, I found things like Roland FP-4 for 3000 NIS(~750$), maybe I'll buy something in that scale in a few months from now,  when I'm more practiced and know what I want.


Edited by ElephantTalk - October 11 2012 at 08:37
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mono View Drop Down
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Points: 652 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 10:07
Originally posted by JS19 JS19 wrote:



Source: someone who made the exact mistake you're about to make and very much regretted it. Now a seasoned classical pianist  of 15 years Smile


I started learning using a keyboard, never regretted it. 
I wouldn't be as alarming as you on this one... I think most people can do the transition just fine, especially at the beginning, where you mostly learn theory and basics.

Of course, the faster you can get yourself on a piano or at least an electronic piano with good touch, the better...

Alsol, I would point out that a second hand lested piano for the same price range as the new keyboard is indeed a great idea! (even though it seems a bit hard with this keyboard's price...).
https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence
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ElephantTalk View Drop Down
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Points: 21 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 10:38
I can pay as much as needed(to a limit of course) for a decent piano, though I don't want to go too far with it yet, not until I see a fair amount of progress, and convinced that I'm going to keep playing in the future (though my feeling is that I will), as this is no small investment.
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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Points: 7849 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 10:45
I really think that nothing beats a quality grand piano. The weight of the keys all enhelps produce the best sound possible. I think there is just some Tim gs that emulators can't do. It's just too bad Grand Pianos are so goddam expensive!!! Lol
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ElephantTalk View Drop Down
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Points: 21 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 11:10
And impossible to play with at home, considering the noise.
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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Points: 7849 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 11:59
Originally posted by ElephantTalk ElephantTalk wrote:

And impossible to play with at home, considering the noise.


If your really good it'll never be considered as noise.
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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thellama73 View Drop Down
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Points: 8368 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 12:43
Grand pianos actually have a wider dynamic response range, so it is possible to play them more quietly than an upright.
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wilmon91 View Drop Down
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Points: 698 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2012 at 15:45
Originally posted by ElephantTalk ElephantTalk wrote:

I found things like Roland FP-4 for 3000 NIS(~750$), maybe I'll buy something in that scale in a few months from now.
 
When I looked for stage pianos many years ago I really liked the touch feeling of Roland FP-5. The keys werent too heavy but felt natural. Maybe FP-4 has the same touch.
 
I ended up buying a MIDI keyboard , CME UF8, 88 keys, fully weighted with hammer action. And I used it with a sample library on the computer to practise piano (currently I have access to a real piano though). The dynamic control isn't good with the UF8 keyboard though, something wrong wth the MIDI control probably. 
 
But hammer action is good to have. Semi-weighted keys have a really bad feeling from my experiences. Practising on a regular synth keyboard is probably not the ideal thing if playing classical music because you are building up individual strength and dynamic control in the fingers. The weight and feeling of real piano keys is part of developing the musical approach to the instrument.
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infocat View Drop Down
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Points: 4671 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2012 at 01:16

--
Frank Swarbrick
Belief is not Truth.
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Uncomfortable View Drop Down
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Points: 8 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2012 at 01:39
if its strictly for lesson practice then yes. Other than that however, its simply garbage in a respectful way.
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pitfall View Drop Down
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Points: 109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2012 at 15:18
Playing a digital simulation of a piano is a bit like having sex with a blow up rubber doll. Better that nothing, yes, but a far cry from the real thing. At least a Rhodes or a Wurlitzer are living, breathing real instruments, whatever their faults. When you are learning, you need to be inspired by the sound and feel of the instrument. For me at least, digital keyboards are a damp squib.
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ExittheLemming View Drop Down
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2012 at 08:03
^ an informative analogy certainly which I'm surprised Steinway haven't incorporated into their advertisingLOL
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progbethyname View Drop Down
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Points: 7849 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2012 at 08:23
Originally posted by pitfall pitfall wrote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Playing a digital simulation of a piano is a bit like having sex with a blow up rubber doll. Better that nothing, yes, but a far cry from the real thing. At least a Rhodes or a Wurlitzer are living, breathing real instruments, whatever their faults. When you are learning, you need to be inspired by the sound and feel of the instrument. For me at least, digital keyboards are a damp squib.


I rather enjoy the comparison in this analogy. Funny stuff, but true. Nice one.
Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Uncomfortable View Drop Down
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Points: 8 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2012 at 11:54
Compeletly true!
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mono View Drop Down
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Points: 652 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2012 at 05:11
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Grand pianos actually have a wider dynamic response range, so it is possible to play them more quietly than an upright.

Not sure they can get quieter than uprights... they sure can get louder though.

Also, please remember the initial subject. It is not whether a digital keyboard can full replace a piano, but rather what instrument to get when you want to START LEARNING the piano.
A real piano being the obvious answer, it's the 'alternative' solutions that are of interest.
In other terms, which blow up doll to get...
https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence
https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects
https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else
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