No Longer Prog!

I appreciate that bringing this suggestion up is a little like picking at an old scab so it doesn’t heal, but there has to be some way that ProgArchives can accommodate progressive rock albums by non-prog bands without compromising the integrity of the archive. Or there has to be, in my opinion. Not doing so means that these same bands will continue to be suggested, and more importantly the archive will arguably be missing some important albums in the development of the genre.

 

As a suggestion, could we not create entries for bands limited to a time period? A similar approach has been taken for the Ian Gillan Band. Albums by Gillan after the name was changed are not included, but IGB output quite rightly is. This approach would be more difficult for a band that has a couple of prog albums spread through their discography, but some artists lend themselves nicely to this approach.

 

Here are some (possibly controversial) suggestions by way of example;

UFO (to 1973) would contain 3 albums (including UFO Live), possibly in Space or Heavy Prog. Later albums have no place in the archive.

Scorpions (to 1973) – two albums in heavy or krautrock including a live album. Later albums have no place.

Judas Priest (to 1976/7) – 2/3 albums in heavy prog. Later albums have no place. A more controversial suggestion perhaps, and would you want to include Nostradamus?

Deep Purple (to 1970) – 3 studio and some live albums in Heavy Prog. The remainder of the  discography to remain in prog-related. The first three studios are prog, not prog-related.

Journey (to 1977) – 3 albums in jr/f  with the remainder in prog-related given they are already on the site and have lots of reviews.

 

There are undoubtably a good number of other bands this approach could be applied to. It's not about opening the floodgates, rather than managing a situation that to me is currently unsatisfactory. This suggestion is only for bands who had a progressive period, rather than bands that are “proggy” without being prog. They remain in Prog-related.

 

I’ve a feeling this will get flamed, but thought I’d raise it anyway!

Edited by Bosh66 - October 03 2012 at 04:07

Well Deep Purple are (rightly) on here as Prog Related already. I do understand your sentiment, but I suppose I differentiate between a band that was (for some period) a progressive rock band, and a band that incorporated progressive influences or movements into their music (Wishbone Ash, Queen, The Who etc). There were lots of the latter to varying degrees, especially as you say in the 1970s, but less of the former. I care about the former partly because I think people exploring the genre may not be aware of these progressive rock albums. I don't care enough  for it to keep me awake at night, but I think it's a gap we should and could easily close.

Proto-prog may be closer, I'm fine with that, although stylistically early DP do remind me of bands like Quatermass and their ilk.

Edited by Bosh66 - October 03 2012 at 06:58

irrelevant wrote: Bosh66 wrote: What I'm not suggesting here is tagging albums by style or sub-genre. That's altogether a more complex discussion. But tagging would be more useful IMO.  I know many agree. I worry it would be messy and require a major over-haul of the site. I'm open to the idea, but it is a different argument. Also according to the site, to be included in the database, an artist only needs one album of fully prog material anyway.  Correct, but that doesn't always work in practice. There's a legitimate concern I think that by including certain bands (not just the ones suggested by me) on the site the front page would be swamped with reviews for Mechanix or Lovedrive and that the site would feel less of a prog site as a result. Hence my suggestion for restricting the discography of these bands.

Bosh66 wrote: irrelevant wrote: Bosh66 wrote: What I'm not suggesting here is tagging albums by style or sub-genre. That's altogether a more complex discussion. But tagging would be more useful IMO.  I know many agree. I worry it would be messy and require a major over-haul of the site. I'm open to the idea, but it is a different argument. Unfortunately that's probably the only reason it hasn't been implemented, the major overhaul factor.  Also according to the site, to be included in the database, an artist only needs one album of fully prog material anyway.  Correct, but that doesn't always work in practice. There's a legitimate concern I think that by including certain bands (not just the ones suggested by me) on the site the front page would be swamped with reviews for Mechanix or Lovedrive and that the site would feel less of a prog site as a result. Hence my suggestion for restricting the discography of these bands. Hmm, good point. I mean it's all well and good if one completely new to the site comes to the front page knowing all about prog, seeing non-prog albums in the review section and knowing they aren't prog, you don't want to give people the wrong idea. Which is why I think the tagging system is ideal.

Bosh66 wrote: thellama73 wrote: It is a little annoying that albums like Kind Of Blue end up at the top of the Jazz Rock/Fusion charts when there's nothing fusion about them. Or Hancock's Maiden Voyage! See, if we were prepared to restrict chronologically we could have excluded anything prior to In A Silent Way or Mwandishi And now I've just alienated the jazz enthusiasts

That's okay, that's why we have Jazz Music Archives.

The best would be genre by album, but its just a very huge task for the grene admins, to go trough every album by every artist. Can imagine trying to spilt everything by Zappa into the right category.

Bosh66 wrote: Adding the first three UFO albums for example has no impact on the rest of the site. Adding all UFO albums would have a negative impact on the site (even though there are proggy bits in some of the later albums).

NotAProghead wrote: Bosh66 wrote: Adding the first three UFO albums for example has no impact on the rest of the site. Adding all UFO albums would have a negative impact on the site (even though there are proggy bits in some of the later albums). How to control this? Block "Add albums" after adding these 3 albums?  There is a rule: if the band is on PA, its entire official discography could be added. In my opinion it's a good rule and no need to invent new troubles. People are not deaf to sort out which albums are prog and which ones are non-prog.

I see thye OP's point, there's more to it than just some mildly proggy LP by the Scorps;  Almost everyone with any real interest in music and its expansion did at least one album between about 1970 and 1979 that could be considered progressive rock, or a progression of rock.   It was truly a Grand Age of Prog and you had people as Meatloaf[Bat Out of Hell], Stevie Wonder[Music of My Mind,Songs in the Key of Life], even McCartney[Wild Life].   I'm not suggesting these artists be considered for ProgRelated or even the albums, just that this Grand Age should be recognized.