The (Factually) Greatest Drummer

dtguitarfan wrote: My wife doesn't care much for DT or any of their albums. But she also doesn't walk up to me and my buddies when we're talking about our appreciation of them and say "hey, just thought you'd wanna know that I think all their songs sound the same and are boring. Just thought I'd interrupt your conversation to offer that helpful opinion."

My wife does that to me sometimes.  One time when I was listening to Sigur Ros, she went on Facebook and posted as her status, "Don't tell Steve, but Sigur Ros are a real buzzkill".  Of course she "tagged" me in the post, so it got to me immediately anyway.  And then if that's not enough, all my friends comment on her post agreeing with her. Talk about a buzzkill...

^

Maybe my post was a bit short and direct. I  could have elaborated a bit. I have said it all before though and I had time only for a quickie. Note. No more quickies.

Snow Dog, I'm sorry I said your mother sounds the same. And thellama73, I'm sorry I said your face has features. And prog snob, I'm sorry I said that your fingers fing. Anyone else want an apology? It's "apologize for saying meaningless things" day. Also, it's "demand someone apologize to someone else" day - so...HolyMoly, you oughta be ashamed! Apologize to progbethyname!

dtguitarfan wrote: Snow Dog, I'm sorry I said your mother sounds the same. And thellama73, I'm sorry I said your face has features. And prog snob, I'm sorry I said that your fingers fing. Anyone else want an apology? It's "apologize for saying meaningless things" day. Also, it's "demand someone apologize to someone else" day - so...HolyMoly, you oughta be ashamed! Apologize to progbethyname!

Dean wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: Snow Dog wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: Snow Dog wrote: dtguitarfan wrote: Lord, you make a harmless "yo mamma" joke around here and get jumped on - and really, I didn't even say anything! Sounds the same but more boring - same as what? I didn't even say anything there, thus I feel no need to apologize. Now, entering a DT thread just to say they are boring and incite needless arguments - THAT ought to be apologized for. But rather than arguing with a punk I made a silly, meaningless joke. So sue me. I didn't say DT were boring. I said the latest album was "Punk"! Still incites needless arguments, punk. I'm sorry, you are quite right. I'll keep my opinion to myself. You obviously are to immature to handle a different opinion. I used to think you were  an Ok person. I am sadly mistaken. I don't care if you think DT, or any of their albums, are boring. But to enter into a discussion of how multiple people love something and abruptly state that it is boring is kind of an argument starter, and it's not like we don't have enough of those around either. My wife doesn't care much for DT or any of their albums. But she also doesn't walk up to me and my buddies when we're talking about our appreciation of them and say "hey, just thought you'd wanna know that I think all their songs sound the same and are boring. Just thought I'd interrupt your conversation to offer that helpful opinion." Have you not looked at Ian's LastFM signature or read any of his previous posts? He is a DT fan, just like many of us who have posted here, we just don't think everything they've done is good or great.

This is what I was thinking too. I noticed Ian's signature so I knew he was a fan, but probably someone who hasn't been thrilled with their musical direction the last couple of albums. I know quite a few people who were mega-fans but have been extremely disappointed with recent releases.

If someone thinks it is boring, who cares? I am sure there is plenty of music out there which you find boring that people on here probably think is great. I already know this on my end. In the end, does it really matter?

Snow Dog wrote: ^Oh I like  recent albums. A lot.  Just not the latest. They kind of needed a change in direction imo

I think they got a change of direction.  See, to me, Train of Thought is their most boring album - the one I rarely listen to.  Though for some people, that was their favorite (maybe you're in that group?) - I guess that's one of the reason they're such a great band: the fact that they appeal to different people for different reasons.  Anyways, to me, I kept feeling like Portnoy was trying to take them AWAY from Prog, and when he left they put out a 100% Prog album, and I absolutely LOVED it!  To me, it's one of their LEAST boring albums because of that reason.

Geoff:  We know that your remark was a joke and didn't actually mean anything (most insults, whatever the intention, don't).  But please consider that this is a multi-national forum, and that not everyone is going to interpret that comment the same.  In some cultures, where family loyalty and honor are considered paramount, a harmless "your mom" joke could be taken as a terrible insult.  Ian is British, and I have no idea what connotations that comment carries in his culture.  I'm pretty sure that it's not acceptable in European cultures, though, because I used to know someone who moved to the U.S. from Europe who considered "your mom" an insult to his family honor.

What I'm saying is that I know you meant your post as a joke, and not to be offensive, but you have to be considerate to what people in other cultures might think of what you say.  There's no shame in apologizing, either; you made a honest mistake, and if you admit it people will realize that you didn't mean to offend anyone.

Everyone else:  If you don't know, "your mom" jokes are a light kind of fun jab in America.  I understand your reaction, and that you want Geoff to apologize.  I get that.  No reason to get upset, though, we can all learn something about other people's cultural customs from this.

Ambient Hurricanes wrote: Geoff:  We know that your remark was a joke and didn't actually mean anything (most insults, whatever the intention, don't).  But please consider that this is a multi-national forum, and that not everyone is going to interpret that comment the same.  In some cultures, where family loyalty and honor are considered paramount, a harmless "your mom" joke could be taken as a terrible insult.  Ian is British, and I have no idea what connotations that comment carries in his culture.  I'm pretty sure that it's not acceptable in European cultures, though, because I used to know someone who moved to the U.S. from Europe who considered "your mom" an insult to his family honor. What I'm saying is that I know you meant your post as a joke, and not to be offensive, but you have to be considerate to what people in other cultures might think of what you say.  There's no shame in apologizing, either; you made a honest mistake, and if you admit it people will realize that you didn't mean to offend anyone. Everyone else:  If you don't know, "your mom" jokes are a light kind of fun jab in America.  I understand your reaction, and that you want Geoff to apologize.  I get that.  No reason to get upset, though, we can all learn something about other people's cultural customs from this.

The issue is not the severity of the "joke" but that it is personal. A non-personal criticism of a peice of music was met with a personal jibe, regardless of how "meaningless" that jibe was it was directed at Ian. If we tolerate this where does it stop, at what point do we regard personal jibes and attacks as being unacceptable?