Forum Home Forum Home > Topics not related to music > General Polls
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Romney or Obama (or Third party)
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedRomney or Obama (or Third party)

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 10>
Poll Question: Which will you be voting for (or, if underage, who do you want to win?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
5 [12.50%]
30 [75.00%]
5 [12.50%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

Author
Message
ClemofNazareth View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Prog Folk Researcher

Joined: August 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4659
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2012 at 13:32
Originally posted by ClemofNazareth ClemofNazareth wrote:

As for the working poor who get their payroll taxes refunded at the end of the year, blame the Republicans if blame is necessary.  They're the ones who passed the child tax credit act that led to people being able to claim significant income deductions based on the number of kids they have.
 
It's probably gauche to quote oneself, but something occured to me after posting this that's worth pointing out.
 
I'm a 12-year military veteran (Marine Corps), who attained the rank of Gunnery Sergeant during my tour.  Why is this relevent?  Because for 9 of those 12 years one of those working poor slackers who didn't pay taxes and felt the government 'owed him a living' was me, thanks to low pay for my service and the fact I had the gall to start a family.  And after 12 years of loyal service I walked away with no vested pension thanks to the U.S. military's 20-years-or-nothing retirement plan. 
 
My eldest son falls into the 47% as well, even though he is working full-time in the Peace Corps representing his country and trying to make life better for poor and underprivileged children in Africa. So do my parents, who both worked (and paid taxes) for half a century before retiring.  And there are undoubtedly millions more like us that Romney counts among the 47% he has written off as unworthy.
 
The point I guess is that it's pretty presumptuous of Romey to make broad claims about the character and work ethic of those who don't pay enough taxes to justify his approval.  He doesn't know and we don't know the stories and situations behind why those folks are in the situations they are in, and it's pretty callous of him to dismiss this huge portion of our citizenship simply because he doesn't think they'll take the time to advance his ambitions by voting for him.
 
"Peace is the only battle worth waging."

Albert Camus
Back to Top
thellama73 View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2012 at 13:48
^Aren't you kind of proving Romney's point that the people who don't pay taxes won't vote for him no matter what?
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66253
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2012 at 13:53
This guy is a pretty liberal writer, but he does seem to make a point about the number of Republicans that Romney has insulted with that comment.  http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/18/opinion/granderson-romney-video/index.html?hpt=hp_t1  Granted, I can only suspect that most of them vote Republican because of the strong moral position that the Republicans take.
Back to Top
ClemofNazareth View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Prog Folk Researcher

Joined: August 17 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4659
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2012 at 13:54
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

^Aren't you kind of proving Romney's point that the people who don't pay taxes won't vote for him no matter what?
 
That wasn't my intent, but in fact my parents (like many older Americans) are pretty conservative and will probably vote for him anyway.
 
The original question of the thread was 'who will you be voting for?'.  In my case - not Romney, for many, many reasons but not the least of which is because of his complete lack of understanding of, or empathy for, the vast majority of Americans.
 
"Peace is the only battle worth waging."

Albert Camus
Back to Top
thellama73 View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2012 at 14:02
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

This guy is a pretty liberal writer, but he does seem to make a point about the number of Republicans that Romney has insulted with that comment.  http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/18/opinion/granderson-romney-video/index.html?hpt=hp_t1  Granted, I can only suspect that most of them vote Republican because of the strong moral position that the Republicans take.


That article commits a ridiculous logical fallacy early on, and then I stopped reading it. The author concludes that since most of the people who don't pay income taxes come from states that voted for McCain, most people who don't pay taxes voted for McCain.

This article looks at the numbers in a more meaningful way.
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66253
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2012 at 14:14
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

This guy is a pretty liberal writer, but he does seem to make a point about the number of Republicans that Romney has insulted with that comment.  http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/18/opinion/granderson-romney-video/index.html?hpt=hp_t1  Granted, I can only suspect that most of them vote Republican because of the strong moral position that the Republicans take.


That article commits a ridiculous logical fallacy early on, and then I stopped reading it. The author concludes that since most of the people who don't pay income taxes come from states that voted for McCain, most people who don't pay taxes voted for McCain.

This article looks at the numbers in a more meaningful way.
Although, the author does seem to come to the same conclusion regarding who not to vote for. LOL 
 
I do believe that a big reason that the Republican party carries the South has little to due with economic policies and more to due with the Social policies.  Same reason that I generally vote Democratic.  Economically, I do tend to be more conservative, but socially, I am extremely liberal.  I have generally let my social feelings decide how I vote, and I believe that this is also true in the South.
Back to Top
thellama73 View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2012 at 14:17
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:


Economically, I do tend to be more conservative, but socially, I am extremely liberal.


Sounds like you should jump on board the libertarian train, buddy! Smile
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66253
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2012 at 14:23
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:


Economically, I do tend to be more conservative, but socially, I am extremely liberal.


Sounds like you should jump on board the libertarian train, buddy! Smile
There are some good thoughts there, but some tend to be too Anarchist for my tastes. Although, there are days when I am in the right mood where that thought process does align with mine.  
Back to Top
crimhead View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: October 10 2006
Location: Missouri
Status: Offline
Points: 19236
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2012 at 15:24
The guys that made that Craptacular movie "Innocence of Islam"     LOL

Not liking either of the choices. Big money has ruined the electorial process for everyone.
Back to Top
rushfan4 View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66253
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2012 at 15:56
Ironic?
 

Do Governor Romney’s remarks at a recent fundraiser regarding 47% of Americans being dependent on government make you more or less likely to support his candidacy?

More likely (42545)
47%
Less likely (25574) - your vote
29%
Will have no impact (21604)
24%
Back to Top
UMUR View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 3069
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2012 at 02:25
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

If I was an American, would I then vote for a religious fanatic? Hmm...let me see...hmm...hell noooooo!!!


What does a candidate's religion have to do with anything? If you don't like his policies, fine, but that seems like as stupid a reason not to vote for someone as race or sexual orientation.
 
 
...well for starters his view on abortion is strongly affected by him being religious (Iīm not saying all religious people are like him. Iīm only commenting on his views). In my country a man like him would be the subject of ridicule. He would quite frankly be considered sligthly mad.Smile. Would I trust a man I consider mentally unstable to rule one of the worldīs super powers? Itīs bad enough the world had to endure Bush, but this seems even worse to me.
 
...his plan to roll back Obamacare is socially irresponsible too. Finally the poor and the needy are able to receive qualified health care, and of course the "good Samaritan" (that would be Romney) with his big Christian heart wants it rolled back because itīs oh so bad that the filthy rich 1% of the American population has to pay a little extra tax for it to work. Whereīs the Christian ideals, the human dignity and unity in that?
 
Itīs "to each his own" and I canīt stand that egocentric idiology. How about a broader perspective on the society where you live.


Edited by UMUR - September 19 2012 at 02:32
Back to Top
Atavachron View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65239
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2012 at 02:32
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:


Economically, I do tend to be more conservative, but socially, I am extremely liberal.
Sounds like you should jump on board the libertarian train, buddy! Smile
There are some good thoughts there, but some tend to be too Anarchist for my tastes. Although, there are days when I am in the right mood where that thought process does align with mine.  
Not to mention the troubling and unaccountable anti-abortion streak.



Back to Top
Epignosis View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2012 at 06:43
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

If I was an American, would I then vote for a religious fanatic? Hmm...let me see...hmm...hell noooooo!!!


What does a candidate's religion have to do with anything? If you don't like his policies, fine, but that seems like as stupid a reason not to vote for someone as race or sexual orientation.
 
 
...well for starters his view on abortion is strongly affected by him being religious (Iīm not saying all religious people are like him. Iīm only commenting on his views). In my country a man like him would be the subject of ridicule. He would quite frankly be considered sligthly mad.Smile. Would I trust a man I consider mentally unstable to rule one of the worldīs super powers? Itīs bad enough the world had to endure Bush, but this seems even worse to me.
 
...his plan to roll back Obamacare is socially irresponsible too. Finally the poor and the needy are able to receive qualified health care, and of course the "good Samaritan" (that would be Romney) with his big Christian heart wants it rolled back because itīs oh so bad that the filthy rich 1% of the American population has to pay a little extra tax for it to work. Whereīs the Christian ideals, the human dignity and unity in that?
 
Itīs "to each his own" and I canīt stand that egocentric idiology. How about a broader perspective on the society where you live.


I find the European view of American politics rather intriguing.  Many of you seem to be satisfied with your socialism, but think it will apply just fine and dandy here.  It absolutely will not.  Raise taxes on the wealthy all you want- you will not lower our debt, and you will crush our GDP, which will in turn negate future tax revenues.  Our wealthy already pay 70% of our tax revenue.  How are they then not (as Democrats are fond of saying) not paying their "fair share?"  A large number of our population pay nothing- actually, they get credits, like the EIC and the child tax credit, so the government is paying them.  Enough of this nonsense that the rich don't pay enough.

"Obamacare" (silly term) does not mean "the poor and needy are able to receive qualified health care."  They have always been able to receive that.  How do I know?  Because I've been poor, and I've never been turned away, nor have my wife or children.  We get billed, make an arrangement, and pay what we could each month.

What "Obamacare" does do is compel American citizens to engage in commerce (i.e., purchase health insurance).  This does not, as the proper title of the law says, make health care more affordable.  Nay, it makes it more expensive by increasing demand.

By the way, no where in the Bible will you find that being Christian means bending over and letting some bloated, governmental, corrupt bureaucracy that squanders billions be in charge of redistributing your wealth.
Back to Top
The T View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2012 at 07:40
^Also sad that being anti-abortion (not that I definitely am) can be the object of ridicule in Denmark.
Back to Top
thellama73 View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2012 at 08:03
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:



What does a candidate's religion have to do with anything? If you don't like his policies, fine, but that seems like as stupid a reason not to vote for someone as race or sexual orientation.
 
 
...well for starters his view on abortion is strongly affected by him being religious (Iīm not saying all religious people are like him. Iīm only commenting on his views). In my country a man like him would be the subject of ridicule. He would quite frankly be considered sligthly mad.Smile. Would I trust a man I consider mentally unstable to rule one of the worldīs super powers? Itīs bad enough the world had to endure Bush, but this seems even worse to me.
 
.


It makes me sad to hear that religious bigotry is such a mainstream part of your culture.
Back to Top
AlexDOM View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 02 2011
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 775
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2012 at 08:20
Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

If I was an American, would I then vote for a religious fanatic? Hmm...let me see...hmm...hell noooooo!!!


What does a candidate's religion have to do with anything? If you don't like his policies, fine, but that seems like as stupid a reason not to vote for someone as race or sexual orientation.
 
 
...well for starters his view on abortion is strongly affected by him being religious (Iīm not saying all religious people are like him. Iīm only commenting on his views). In my country a man like him would be the subject of ridicule. He would quite frankly be considered sligthly mad.Smile. Would I trust a man I consider mentally unstable to rule one of the worldīs super powers? Itīs bad enough the world had to endure Bush, but this seems even worse to me.
 
...his plan to roll back Obamacare is socially irresponsible too. Finally the poor and the needy are able to receive qualified health care, and of course the "good Samaritan" (that would be Romney) with his big Christian heart wants it rolled back because itīs oh so bad that the filthy rich 1% of the American population has to pay a little extra tax for it to work. Whereīs the Christian ideals, the human dignity and unity in that?
 
Itīs "to each his own" and I canīt stand that egocentric idiology. How about a broader perspective on the society where you live.

Romney is not a Christian, he's a Mormon.  Completely different!
Back to Top
AlexDOM View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 02 2011
Location: Indianapolis
Status: Offline
Points: 775
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2012 at 08:21


I find the European view of American politics rather intriguing.  Many of you seem to be satisfied with your socialism, but think it will apply just fine and dandy here.  It absolutely will not.  Raise taxes on the wealthy all you want- you will not lower our debt, and you will crush our GDP, which will in turn negate future tax revenues.  Our wealthy already pay 70% of our tax revenue.  How are they then not (as Democrats are fond of saying) not paying their "fair share?"  A large number of our population pay nothing- actually, they get credits, like the EIC and the child tax credit, so the government is paying them.  Enough of this nonsense that the rich don't pay enough.

"Obamacare" (silly term) does not mean "the poor and needy are able to receive qualified health care."  They have always been able to receive that.  How do I know?  Because I've been poor, and I've never been turned away, nor have my wife or children.  We get billed, make an arrangement, and pay what we could each month.

What "Obamacare" does do is compel American citizens to engage in commerce (i.e., purchase health insurance).  This does not, as the proper title of the law says, make health care more affordable.  Nay, it makes it more expensive by increasing demand.

By the way, no where in the Bible will you find that being Christian means bending over and letting some bloated, governmental, corrupt bureaucracy that squanders billions be in charge of redistributing your wealth.
[/QUOTE]

Yes. Finally some common sense


Edited by AlexDOM - September 19 2012 at 08:21
Back to Top
Andy Webb View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin

Joined: June 04 2010
Location: Terria
Status: Offline
Points: 13298
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2012 at 08:34
Originally posted by AlexDOM AlexDOM wrote:

Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

If I was an American, would I then vote for a religious fanatic? Hmm...let me see...hmm...hell noooooo!!!


What does a candidate's religion have to do with anything? If you don't like his policies, fine, but that seems like as stupid a reason not to vote for someone as race or sexual orientation.
 
 
...well for starters his view on abortion is strongly affected by him being religious (Iīm not saying all religious people are like him. Iīm only commenting on his views). In my country a man like him would be the subject of ridicule. He would quite frankly be considered sligthly mad.Smile. Would I trust a man I consider mentally unstable to rule one of the worldīs super powers? Itīs bad enough the world had to endure Bush, but this seems even worse to me.
 
...his plan to roll back Obamacare is socially irresponsible too. Finally the poor and the needy are able to receive qualified health care, and of course the "good Samaritan" (that would be Romney) with his big Christian heart wants it rolled back because itīs oh so bad that the filthy rich 1% of the American population has to pay a little extra tax for it to work. Whereīs the Christian ideals, the human dignity and unity in that?
 
Itīs "to each his own" and I canīt stand that egocentric idiology. How about a broader perspective on the society where you live.

Romney is not a Christian, he's a Mormon.  Completely different!

I dearly hope that exclamation point indicates sarcasm.
Back to Top
AtomicCrimsonRush View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 14258
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2012 at 08:55
Where's the 'I dont give a damn' button?
Back to Top
UMUR View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 3069
Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2012 at 09:09
Originally posted by Andy Webb Andy Webb wrote:

Originally posted by AlexDOM AlexDOM wrote:

Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by UMUR UMUR wrote:

If I was an American, would I then vote for a religious fanatic? Hmm...let me see...hmm...hell noooooo!!!


What does a candidate's religion have to do with anything? If you don't like his policies, fine, but that seems like as stupid a reason not to vote for someone as race or sexual orientation.
 
 
...well for starters his view on abortion is strongly affected by him being religious (Iīm not saying all religious people are like him. Iīm only commenting on his views). In my country a man like him would be the subject of ridicule. He would quite frankly be considered sligthly mad.Smile. Would I trust a man I consider mentally unstable to rule one of the worldīs super powers? Itīs bad enough the world had to endure Bush, but this seems even worse to me.
 
...his plan to roll back Obamacare is socially irresponsible too. Finally the poor and the needy are able to receive qualified health care, and of course the "good Samaritan" (that would be Romney) with his big Christian heart wants it rolled back because itīs oh so bad that the filthy rich 1% of the American population has to pay a little extra tax for it to work. Whereīs the Christian ideals, the human dignity and unity in that?
 
Itīs "to each his own" and I canīt stand that egocentric idiology. How about a broader perspective on the society where you live.

Romney is not a Christian, he's a Mormon.  Completely different!

I dearly hope that exclamation point indicates sarcasm.


If it doesnīt he is screwedLOL
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.199 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.