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Gamemako 
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Joined: March 31 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1184 |
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 Posted: September 17 2012 at 15:05 |
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Not really news, but hell.
Just more support for previous research, really. Real economic growth comes from technological development, and cutting taxes on rich a****les just makes for richer a****les. |
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Hail Eris!
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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Posted: September 17 2012 at 15:36 |
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Nothing like a study that makes a ceteris paribus argument when there's no reason to assume that.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: January 09 2008 Location: Kentucky Status: Offline Points: 24598 |
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Posted: September 17 2012 at 16:40 |
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I was going to say that once again, tax cuts only work when you introduce spending cuts with them too, but your statement works perfectly fine too. |
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Gamemako
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 31 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1184 |
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Posted: September 17 2012 at 18:04 |
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You are arguing that economics is perfectly resistant to study, turning it into a religion which has no place in governance. If you have sources of error, identify them and attempt to quantify them. Explain why the expected result (cutting taxes resulting in growth) results in no significant difference. What is done that causes a positive effect to be negated? If there is a confounder, what and where is it? This is the nature of empirical study. There is no study without making that approximation (and it is never, ever fully true). The mechanism by which tax cuts fail to cause economic growth is not considered. From a policy standpoint, it is not relevant unless the mechanism can be identified and circumvented. If you can't say why tax cuts on the wealthy haven't resulted in growth in the past, then cutting taxes again is a fool's errand. If you can say why but cannot address it, then again, cutting taxes is still foolish.
Yes, cutting jobs and giving rich people money a year later to invest in a market that has no buyers is an absolutely PERFECT way to stimulate the economy! No way that would ever backfire on you. |
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Hail Eris!
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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Posted: September 17 2012 at 20:00 |
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Yes, I'm asserting that economics is not a physical science, and we're deluding ourselves into a methodological labyrinth if we try to treat it like one. We should acknowledge the limitations because if we don't we turn an imprecise science into a worthless one. Am I incorrect in assuming that a study should point out how their data actually describes reality? I know that I've had to do exactly that for published work. I don't really see why that burden falls upon me rather than the one putting forth the study. If you can track down the .pdf for me, then I'll do it. I haven't made any policy considerations. I've called this study worthless. Your tirade doesn't change that by assuming I'm making a policy recommendation and criticizing me for it. I'm saying that the study shows nothing, and I see no reason to expect it to show anything. |
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011 Location: internet Status: Offline Points: 2549 |
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Posted: September 17 2012 at 23:25 |
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Yet the rich make up a large portion of the people who are spurring technological growth. The answer to this is simple; cut taxes on the middle class to create a larger demand for the supply bolstered by taxes on the rich. |
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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crimhead
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VIP Member Joined: October 10 2006 Location: Missouri Status: Offline Points: 19236 |
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Posted: September 18 2012 at 15:18 |
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Some would ask why cut the taxes on the 47% that don't pay in and expect the Govt' to take care of them?
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
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Posted: September 18 2012 at 16:02 |
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Or lower taxes across the board and stop  money. |
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 3595 |
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Posted: September 18 2012 at 16:57 |
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Or we could all stop working, stop creating and live in in futile stagnation for a couple years. Who wants to have a cook-out at my house? We'll all burn our social security cards and blare Neil Young's Rust Never Sleeps for hours and hours. Hey, hey, my, my.
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The Bearded Bard
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 24 2012 Location: Behind the Sun Status: Offline Points: 12859 |
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Posted: September 18 2012 at 17:10 |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
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Posted: September 18 2012 at 21:07 |
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They started it. |
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Ambient Hurricanes
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 25 2011 Location: internet Status: Offline Points: 2549 |
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Posted: September 18 2012 at 22:08 |
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I agree with you, but I realize that you might have thought otherwise because I mistakenly said, "the supply bolstered by taxes on the rich" instead of "tax cuts on the rich"... Oops. |
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I love dogs, I've always loved dogs
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32552 |
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Posted: September 18 2012 at 22:12 |
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Nope. I am not that specific when it comes to |
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The Dark Elf
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VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13203 |
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Posted: September 18 2012 at 23:52 |
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Whatever our political affiliations, can we all agree that the Republican party chose the worst possible candidate in Mitt Romney? I mean, we may have had a feeling what this guy was all about, but he's so slippery, one never can get an exact read on the guy. That was until like a fool he opened his mouth and removed all doubt:
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax."
And then he went a step beyond the pale by saying:
"[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."
Did he really say that 47% of Americans don't take personal responsibility for their lives? Could someone say anything else that could so alienate and infuriate so many voters? The majority of senior citizens in the U.S. who are scrambling to pay for overpriced prescriptions and exorbitant medical bills? All of those in the military? People who cannot afford to send their kids to college because the institutions have priced themselves beyond the capacity for most Americans to pay? The folks whose good-paying jobs have been sent overseas by self-enriching, parasitic corporate CEOs like Romney?
Here is the full article from Mother Jones:
Romney has no heart and no soul. He's as plastic as whatever it is he sprays in his hair.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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Posted: September 18 2012 at 23:55 |
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^Well there's always Rick Santorum...
Though even he would have learned to at least keep his damn mouth shut. |
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The Dark Elf
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VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13203 |
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Posted: September 19 2012 at 00:03 |
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Oh...yeah...Rick Santorum. I had almost forgotten about him, T. *shivers*
The sad thing about the Republican party is that if they could find a moderate Republican (if one still exists), they might have actually beaten Obama. But the party has swung so far right that most independent voters (myself included) are rightfully scared out of their wits by these neo-cons. Poor Ronald Reagan would be crucified as a liberal!
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
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Posted: September 19 2012 at 07:59 |
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You're wrong. They tried the moderate strategy with John McCain and it failed miserably (and don't say it's because of Sarah Palin, he was doomed from day one.) I do agree with you that we should stop nominating Neo-Cons (which are in fact a more moderate arm of the party) and instead turn to Paleo-Cons. |
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Padraic
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
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Posted: September 19 2012 at 09:08 |
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I personally liked Jon Huntsman. But he didn't think the world was created 6000 years ago, so he was shown the door, because we all know how important that is for policy making.
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The T
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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Posted: September 19 2012 at 09:37 |
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9-9-9
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005 Location: Philly Status: Offline Points: 15784 |
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Posted: September 19 2012 at 09:37 |
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Well clearly if you don't you might be tempted to waste taxpayers money on the trash heap that is evolutionary theory instead of putting that money to productive measures like R&D for a new missile which will be obsolete by the time it's built 10 years later and 32% over budget.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521 wrote: