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The T View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 14:50
Dean is a very fine Admin who probably has seen a lot to talk about in my posts, which sometimes are less clear than needed. I have as of late felt that he has been followig me around but a quick check makes me notice my own PA-related paranoia. I have defended Dean as an admin in the past (even from people outside PA) and I don't want to stain his name. I have overreacted and I apologize.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 15:04
Though we have differed in the past I must hand it to you T. I find you to be a very genuine person deserving of respect and your stance on animal rights and your perceived gentle nature are commendable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 15:44
My God, do any of you people work?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 16:36
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

My God, do any of you people work?


Have you seen what the economy is like?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 16:45
Originally posted by thellama73 thellama73 wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

My God, do any of you people work?


Have you seen what the economy is like?


Sorry.  I hadn't noticed since I'm babysitting again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 16:48
Actually, I do have a job. It's just one that allows me a lot of free time between actual work to argue on the internet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 16:50
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Dean is a very fine Admin who probably has seen a lot to talk about in my posts, which sometimes are less clear than needed. I have as of late felt that he has been followig me around but a quick check makes me notice my own PA-related paranoia. I have defended Dean as an admin in the past (even from people outside PA) and I don't want to stain his name. I have overreacted and I apologize.
I accept your appology, and I respect you greatly for it. I have no grudge with you Teo (never had). You were unfortunate in touching the one raw nerve I have. I know my position here carried a burden in discussions, what others see as an intimidating name-tag, I see as a mill-stone ... time and time again that name-tag has been used against me in an argument and I decided that enough is enough.
What?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 16:56
For what it's worth, I find you to be a very just and fair admin, Dean. (if occasionally argumentative and pig-headed Tongue)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 18:27
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.
 
 
I interpret making that movie as to be similar to falsely shouting "Fire" in a crowded movie theater.  Plain and simple.  If you don't then you don't. 
 
That is the end of my participation in this discussion for today.  I have real work that I need to get done and must stop wasting time debating an argument that will never be agreed upon due to people's different philosophies and views on life.


If you want to dive into the language there, then the creating of an environment of "clear and present danger" would imply that the executors of the violence, the location, the victims, and the time would be able to be defined. So you're telling me that prior to these events, you would have been able to in a general way specify those 4 variables based purely on the movie? You're also ignoring the fact that shouting fire would be (1) false and (2) done for the sole purpose of inciting a riot. I'm not sure that the movie in question satisfies either of these two conditions.
 
Regarding the "shouting fire in a theater" scenario, it is rather interesting that the producer of the film (purported to be of Israeli origin) has his anti-Islamist film (I believe it is a direct attack on Mohammed) translated into Arabic and released on the Internet on 9/11, and further that the anti-Islamist provocateur from Florida, "Pastor" Terry Jones (I emphasize pastor because I find his brand of Christianity certainly not Christ-like), he who burns Korans for publicity, pushes the film on his stream and offers up a 13 minute sequence of it on the net as well. Not condoning militant Islam (I despise religion, personally), but knowing their medieval tenets and their behavior patterns over the past several years (attacking us in Afghanistan for Jones' koran burning, assassinating a Dutch cartoonist, putting out a Fatwa on Salman Rushdie, etc.) it would seem to me that if I wanted to incite an immediate and violent reaction, that is exactly how I would do it.
 
I have not seen the film, nor do I intend to. Chances are very few of the Muslims protesting actually saw the film either (the film being heretical, after all), but like most religious zealots they follow blindly because religion has replaced logical thought processes and like sheep they herd with a mob mentality . It could be that, as recent reports indicate, that the attack on the Libyan U.S. embassy was planned by Al-Qaeda operatives (after all, what protesters bring rocket-propelled grenades to a peaceful protest?).
 
All in all it seems to be a provocative act made entirely to incite violence among ignorant people. Argue the variables all you wish. The producer of the film with the instigation/aid of a known provocateur decided to throw gasoline on a fire on a day of huge symbolic significance.


Edited by The Dark Elf - September 12 2012 at 18:37
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 12 2012 at 19:10
But wait...it seems the weird can get even weirder. Turns out the supposed Israeli citizen who made the anti-Islamic farce "Innocence of Muslims" is actually a Coptic Christian U.S. citizen who has been busted previously on federal fraud charges...
 
 
This is a case where truth is indeed stranger than fiction.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akamaisondufromage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2012 at 12:46

Violent demonstrations spread across the Muslim world over topless pictures of Kate!

Help me I'm falling!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2012 at 12:49
This world has a strange mix of people who care too much about trivial things and too little about important things. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CPicard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2012 at 12:54
I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories. I don't believe in any of them.
Yet, I'm slightly puzzled by the chronology of events around "Innocence of Muslims": the video was posted on Youtube on the 1st of July and went unnoticed.
Then, someone translated and dubbed it in Egyptian Arab (dialectal variation), thus launching the storm we're now watching.
But the maker of this "movie" had been revealed not being Israeli-American, but Egyptian-American.

So, the question is: would I be nuts enough to wonder if HE isn't the one who dubbed the video in Arabian, just to be sure to see the world burning???

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2012 at 13:05
It is pretty well established that the video has little to do with the actual riots.

As the attacks spread to Tunisia and Sudan, I am utterly baffled.,How, on the day after embassies in Egypt, Libya and Yemen are attacked, do we not have armed guards at every single embassy in obviously dangerous countries? Obviously everyone in charge is a complete idiot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2012 at 13:09
We have armed military personnel everywhere in the world except in front of our currently at risk embassies. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2012 at 13:12
At least the US has 122 troops in Greenland so if those damn polar bears start something they're in for a bad surprise. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2012 at 13:14
I know that they sent Marine teams of 50 who specialize in these things to Syria and Libya.  Not sure about Tunisia or Sudan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2012 at 13:18
^They sent marines to the countries that were already attacked, when so far the pattern has been serial embassy attacks on different countries. Doesn't show a lot of foresight.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2012 at 13:18
We already have marines there.

I would like an actual explanation of why the warnings regarding the Libya attack were ignored from the administration.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thellama73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 14 2012 at 13:29
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

We already have marines there.

I would like an actual explanation of why the warnings regarding the Libya attack were ignored from the administration.


I'm reminded of Grey's Law: "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
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