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refugee View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote refugee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2012 at 11:35
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:



And this is what troubles me most:

Some Norwegians now believe their country must draw on the experience to debate issues like immigration as their oil wealth attracts large numbers of foreign workers.

These are being discussed more openly after the killings by Breivik, who believed the government's immigration policies were adulterating "Norwegian blood" and leading to war with Muslims.





Rob, this is cheating! The correct quotes are:

The killings shook the nation of five million which had prided itself as a safe haven from much of the world's troubles, raising questions about the prevalence of far-right views in a country where oil wealth has attracted rising immigration.

And:

Some Norwegians now believe their country must draw on the experience to debate issues like immigration, and a commission investigating the attack also concluded the country need radical changes, including gun controls and more sweeping police powers.

You can’t just mix sentences like that and make it look like a quote. And for your last one:

Although his victims were mostly teenagers, with some as young as 14, he rejected being called a child murderer, arguing that his victims were brainwashed "cultural Marxists" whose political activism would adulterate pure Norwegian blood.

FYI: The debate on immigration has lasted for many, many years in Norway. It’s not more openly discussed now than it used to be. It’s the same all over Europe – in Sweden, Denmark, UK, France, Greece etc.

From now on I’ll not trust your quotes. At least you inserted a link so we could read the article. And also, you must have known that he will not serve 21 years but much, much more, so your mathematics is irrelevant.

Sorry if I seem a bit angry. That’s because I am a bit angry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2012 at 11:47
I did not "cheat."  I copied and pasted the words from the source.  If it is different now, then someone from Yahoo edited it after I quoted it.  Stern Smile

As a matter of fact, I still have the old version up in my browser:

Quote

Norway jails "sane" Breivik for maximum term

ReutersBy Balazs Koranyi | Reuters – 47 mins ago

Related Content

  • Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik (C) gestures as he arrives in the court room at Oslo Courthouse August 24, 2012. The Norwegian court delivers its verdict in the ten-week trial of gunman Breivik on Friday, deciding whether to send the anti-Muslim militant to jail or a mental hospital for the massacre of 77 people last summer. REUTERS/Heiko Junge/NTB Scanpix/Pool

    Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring …

OSLO (Reuters) - Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik was jailed for a maximum term on Friday when judges declared him sane enough to answer for the murder of 77 people last year, drawing a smirk of triumph from the self-styled warrior against Islam.

An unrepentant Breivik, 33, gave the Oslo court a stiff-armed, clench-fisted salute before being handed the steepest possible penalty, 21 years. His release, however, can be put off indefinitely should he still pose a threat to a liberal society left traumatized by his bomb and shooting rampage last July.

Justifying blasting a government building and gunning down dozens of teenagers at a summer camp as a service to a nation threatened by immigration, he had said only acquittal or death would be worthy outcomes. But his biggest concern was being declared insane - the sole verdict he had said he would appeal.

Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen dismissed a prosecution call for her to label Breivik mad, a ruling that would have seen him confined indefinitely to psychiatric care rather than prison.

Some survivors of the slaughter at the Labour party youth camp on Utoeya island had been keen to see Breivik held clearly responsible for his actions - and to avoid the insanity verdict that would have triggered lengthy and traumatic appeal hearings.

For many Norwegians, still shocked by their bloodiest day since World War Two, the details were academic, however.

"He is getting what he deserves," said Alexandra Peltre, 18, whom Breivik shot in the thigh on Utoeya. "This is karma striking back at him. I do not care if he is insane or not, as long as he gets the punishment that he deserves."

Breivik, who had surrendered to police on the island without a fight, admitted blowing up the Oslo government headquarters with a fertilizer bomb, killing eight, on Friday, July 22, 2011, then shooting 69 at the ruling party's summer youth camp.

Dressed in a black suit with a tie and still sporting the under-chin beard familiar from the 10 weeks of hearings that ended in June, Breivik smirked when he entered the courtroom and gave his now familiar, far-right salute when his handcuffs were removed. He smiled again as the judge read out the verdict.

He will not appeal, his lawyer said. "He told me he will accept this verdict," Geir Lippestad told Reuters.

A lawyer for some victims and their families said they, too, were satisfied: "I am pleased, although that's not really the right word, and relieved. This is what we hoped for," said Mette Yvonne Larsen, who represented some of those affected in court.

"I have already received many messages from clients telling me this is justice served and they are happy it's over and will never have to see him again."

The killings shook the nation of five million which had prided itself as a safe haven from much of the world's troubles, raising questions about the prevalence of far-right views in a country where oil wealth has attracted rising immigration.

Breivik will now be kept in isolation inside Ila Prison on the outskirts of Oslo inside relatively spacious quarters that include a separate exercise room, a computer and a television.

He had described an insane verdict as "a fate worse than death". Were he to have been found insane and decided to appeal, the entire trial would have had to be repeated.

Breivik justified his killing spree arguing that the centre-left Labour party is deliberately destroying the nation by encouraging Muslim immigration. His views, spread over the Internet and aired during the trial, drew support from a few in Europe but even most of the hardest right-wing fringe groups kept their distance from the self-confessed mass killer.

Although his victims were mostly teenagers, with some as young as 14, he rejected being called a child murderer, arguing that his victims were brainwashed "cultural Marxists" whose political activism would adulterate pure Norwegian blood.

He stalked his victims dressed as a policeman, tricking them into thinking he was the help sent from the shore after the initial attack. He then shot them from close range before finishing them with a shot to the head.

"I stand by what I have done and I would still do it again." he said during his court testimony.

Some Norwegians now believe their country must draw on the experience to debate issues like immigration as their oil wealth attracts large numbers of foreign workers.

These are being discussed more openly after the killings by Breivik, who believed the government's immigration policies were adulterating "Norwegian blood" and leading to war with Muslims.

One team of court-appointed psychiatrists concluded he was psychotic while another came to the opposing conclusion. To make the ruling more difficult, several other experts who testified described a slew of mental conditions Breivik probably suffered.

Still, polls showed that around 70 percent of Norway's public thought such a complex attack could not have been carried out by a madman and Breivik had to bear responsibility

Breivik has said he would accept a sane verdict, but derided a jail term as "pathetic", and said acquittal or execution were the only reasonable outcomes.

A commission investigating the attack earlier this month concluded that all of part of it could have been prevented and intelligence, police and government blunders likely cost lives.

(Additional reporting by Victoria Klesty, Vegard Botterli, Terje Solsvik, Alister Doyle; Editing by Alistair Scrutton and Alastair Macdonald)



 
I have made bold what I directly quoted.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote refugee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2012 at 11:58
My apologies. They must have changed the article after you posted, cause those quotes are not there now:

http://news.yahoo.com/court-finds-norwegian-mass-killer-breivik-sane-082140655.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2012 at 12:06
Originally posted by refugee refugee wrote:

My apologies. They must have changed the article after you posted, cause those quotes are not there now:

http://news.yahoo.com/court-finds-norwegian-mass-killer-breivik-sane-082140655.html

Shake hands? Handshake


No worries!  Handshake

A question for you though: Do you believe he will spend life in prison (or most of his life)?  If so, why?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote refugee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2012 at 12:26
Yes, I think he will because:

1. His sentence was what we call "forvaring", or "preventive detention". That’s the only way you can get a life sentence in Norway. They will look at his case again after he has served the first sentence, and if they still find he’s a threat to the community, they will not let him out.

2. The trial has been extremely detailed about how he commited his crimes. This has been done deliberately so that the people looking at his case again will see how hideous his crimes were.

3. He has shown no sign of remorse. On the contrary, he sees himself as a hero, warrior and martyr, and I’m pretty sure he will continue to do so. That also makes him a real threat; he would do it again if he could.

Have to go shopping now, we need more wine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2012 at 15:11
Well. you don't want to know what I would do with the jerk. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2012 at 15:19
^Tell us......we can handle it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vibrationbaby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2012 at 15:28
I'd throw him in a cell with a hole in the ground as a toilet with no blanket wearing a hospital gown 8 feet by 10 feet  and feed him bread and water for the rest of his life and maybe on Christmas I would put butter on the bread and flavour crystals in the water that's if I was feeling in a festive mood. What do you think of that?

Edited by Vibrationbaby - August 24 2012 at 15:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2012 at 15:37
I think you are being soft with the Christmas thing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2012 at 15:37
I might have thought that you would throw him into a hole in the ground that was a toilet and let every relative of his victims use it.  Maybe even make it into a tourist attraction so anyone who wants a chance can also take a dump in that hole in the ground.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote timothy leary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2012 at 15:44
Now we are talking...........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2012 at 08:50
Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

I'd throw him in a cell with a hole in the ground as a toilet with no blanket wearing a hospital gown 8 feet by 10 feet  and feed him bread and water for the rest of his life and maybe on Christmas I would put butter on the bread and flavour crystals in the water that's if I was feeling in a festive mood. What do you think of that?


I think that would definitely bring all those people back from the dead.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2012 at 09:02
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Originally posted by Vibrationbaby Vibrationbaby wrote:

I'd throw him in a cell with a hole in the ground as a toilet with no blanket wearing a hospital gown 8 feet by 10 feet  and feed him bread and water for the rest of his life and maybe on Christmas I would put butter on the bread and flavour crystals in the water that's if I was feeling in a festive mood. What do you think of that?


I think that would definitely bring all those people back from the dead.


Neither does jailing him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2012 at 09:05
That prevents him from repeating the act. I'm not sure that inhumane conditions have any effect on that.

(Yeah I know the comment is a straw man but I was being pithy)
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epignosis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2012 at 09:33
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

That prevents him from repeating the act. I'm not sure that inhumane conditions have any effect on that.

(Yeah I know the comment is a straw man but I was being pithy)


People kill people in prison too.  Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2012 at 09:34
(not for the first time today, or ever) I agree with Pat.
What?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2012 at 09:39
I'm not such a fan of a system where one is given a sentence and then, after completing the entire sentence, one can be retained in jail for preventive purposes. Of what damn worth is a sentence and a legal system if consequences of, and punishment for, actions is not known? I probably need more explanations maybe I don't understand this Norwegian legal figure properly.

Either give him 100 years or 20 but give a convicted felon a clear sentence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Equality 7-2521 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2012 at 09:40
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

That prevents him from repeating the act. I'm not sure that inhumane conditions have any effect on that.

(Yeah I know the comment is a straw man but I was being pithy)


People kill people in prison too.  Wink


I thought we didn't care about people in prison anyway?Wink
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Slartibartfast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2012 at 09:51
Actually it seems a different way of accomplishing the same thing.  We give some people with life sentences the possibility of parole, but some will inevitably be in prison for life despite that.  What gets me is this whole multiple life sentences thing or sentences beyond realistic life expectancy.  Keep that corpse behind bars!!!!

Edited by Slartibartfast - August 25 2012 at 09:51
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2012 at 09:53
^let's keep those b*****ds from enjoying some necrophilic looovin'...
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