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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2012 at 10:17
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

It's okay, I got the example and there is little doubt that add revenues contribute to higher player salaries, which attracts better atheletes from other sports they are suited to play - whether that results in a better game is something I'm unable to judge - whether the sport would be any different if salaries were lower is something that can only be guessed at since historical data cannot give a definative answer. You think it does, I'm not convinced that it does.


That's pretty much the summary. Although, I don't think there's much doubt that better athletes make for a better game. It's not the sole component clearly, but there's a reason that we like professional sports more than peewee sports.

Originally posted by Dean</div> <div>And I assume those lesser paid players would be exposed to less risk of injury and would still find reasonable employment in sport or some related business when they retired as a professional player. </div> <div> </div> <div>[warning - pointless old man anecdotes approaching Dean
And I assume those lesser paid players would be exposed to less risk of injury and would still find reasonable employment in sport or some related business when they retired as a professional player.
 
[warning - pointless old man anecdotes approaching wrote:

An old school chum of mine was an apprentice at Manchester United at age 16, since then he's coached college football in the USA for the past 18 years (currently assistant coach at University of Florida) - he never hit the big-time as a player, but he's done alright for himself. My nextdoor neighbour was a professional rugby union player who played 44 matches for his national side (Scotland), on retiring as a professional player he became a coach and is currently a director of Reading RFC - again, he's not wealthy, but he's done alright for himself. 
[/warning]
No one has a job for life and not everyone should expect to earn enough in their playing career to set them up for life - the idea that NFL players have to be paid so much because their careers are short and prone to injury strikes me as "a poor excuse" even when that is the reason. $88K/year isn't enough to do that, $770K/year isn't enough to do that.


A lesser risk of injury - yes because they play less. At this point I don't have data, but I would guess a practice squad NFL player still caries a significantly higher injury risk than a full time MLB (non-pitcher) player or NBA player.

I agree kind of. I'm not making a boo hoo case for NFL players who have such a rough life with their jobs. The whole issue here is a comparative analysis with respect to other sports.
 
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

I think the pool of available talent is larger than the number of places available for professional athletes in all those sports, especially when drawn from a population of 250 million people - supply of suitable playes far outstrips the demand, yet wages are still high.


It depends on what you mean by suitable.

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Another phenomenon that show how indirect viral advertising can be effective has (another cookery example) occurred over here in a cut of meat called fore-rib. Because this is normally sold bone-in and has a high fat content it was deemed "unattractive" to supermarket shoppers and was considered a cheap cut of meat for "poor people". I discovered this cut 30 years ago when I was an impoverished student and even though it was cheap it was extremely tasty, so became my joint of choice for the Sunday roast. Unfortunately over the past 2 or 3 years TV chefs have been extolling its virtues, including how inexpensive yet tasty it is, such that it has become very fashionable, and because of that, very expensive. The same thing is now happening with pork belly and lamb shank. Nothing has changed here except TV endorsements - the animal hasn't changed and the cuts of meat are the same, the increase in demand was created because they were low-price cuts yet then demand hasn't dropped now they've become high-price cuts - what has changed is perception and what created that change in perception was indirect advertising.


Any hard evidence that the perception changed rather than exposure increasing?
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Equality 7-2521 View Drop Down
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2012 at 10:19
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Ok heath care rant that somehow should have some libertarian connection. A couple months ago I had a test done (CT scan) and the people in the place where I had it done told me my only obligation would be a 200$ copay. I agreed and paid. Two months later, last Saturday,  I received a bill for 950$ for the procedure. Contacting the imaging center, they told me the insurance company, who said it would cover the test, "changed its mind" because of supposed preexisting condition. How can this be? I'm sure even a drug dealer tells you what you are going to pay BEFORE you purchase the product, not after. That's part of a free agreement. If I was told the test was going to cost me 1200 I would have NOT have it done. This is another reason why I lose every inch of hope in this country's health system, laughingstock of the civilized world.   


Yeah. I have no reason to support our healthcare system.
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2012 at 13:49
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:


It depends on what you mean by suitable.
Of course it does, then selection of players for the NFL teams I assume is draw from a pool of players capable of achieving a required standard in lower leagues and I also assume there is a wealth of statisitcal data (because as an outsider that appears to be an important part of the spectator game) to determine whether a prospective NFL player will cut it at the higher level. And that pool of lower league players itself draws from a larger pool of lesser/amatuer leagues who could achieve similar "stats" given suitable coaching and physical training.
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

Any hard evidence that the perception changed rather than exposure increasing?
None at all, mainly because I'm not sure how you could seperate the two - greater exposure would lead to a change in perception, a change in perception would lead to greater exposure. If memory serves it started with one or two TV chefs selecting the cut as their prefered roasting meat began the change in perception, then the bigger names like Heston (cook it for 48 hours over a candle) Blumenthal and Nigela (slather it in oil while the camera pans over my heaving chest) Lawson popularised it even more incresing exposure.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2012 at 13:56
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:


Of course it does, then selection of players for the NFL teams I assume is draw from a pool of players capable of achieving a required standard in lower leagues and I also assume there is a wealth of statisitcal data (because as an outsider that appears to be an important part of the spectator game) to determine whether a prospective NFL player will cut it at the higher level. And that pool of lower league players itself draws from a larger pool of lesser/amatuer leagues who could achieve similar "stats" given suitable coaching and physical training.


Because of the nature of football, it's primarily a scouts game. It has not yet opened up to the statistical analysis possible in baseball or cricket.

What I meant to say is that while the supply of athletes who can play the game remains high, the athletes who can be considered good players at the sports remains low so that competition arises between the sports to attract these athletes.


Originally posted by Dean</div><div>None at all, mainly because I'm not sure how you could seperate the two - greater exposure would lead to a change in perception, a change in perception would lead to greater exposure. If memory serves it started with one or two TV chefs selecting the cut as their prefered roasting meat began the change in perception, then the bigger names like Heston (<em>cook it for 48 hours over a candle</em>) Blumenthal and Nigela (<em>slather it in oil while the camera pans over my heaving chest</em>) Lawson popularised it even more incresing exposure.</div>[/QUOTE Dean
None at all, mainly because I'm not sure how you could seperate the two - greater exposure would lead to a change in perception, a change in perception would lead to greater exposure. If memory serves it started with one or two TV chefs selecting the cut as their prefered roasting meat began the change in perception, then the bigger names like Heston (cook it for 48 hours over a candle) Blumenthal and Nigela (slather it in oil while the camera pans over my heaving chest) Lawson popularised it even more incresing exposure.
[/QUOTE wrote:



It's a methodological nightmare, but I would think that a clever enough means could begin to separate the two. There's clearly a difference between, "I'll buy this because I know this exists." and "I'll buy this now because it'll raise my social status as opposed to dropping it which I always though was the case."




It's a methodological nightmare, but I would think that a clever enough means could begin to separate the two. There's clearly a difference between, "I'll buy this because I know this exists." and "I'll buy this now because it'll raise my social status as opposed to dropping it which I always though was the case."
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2012 at 16:38
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

It's a methodological nightmare, but I would think that a clever enough means could begin to separate the two. There's clearly a difference between, "I'll buy this because I know this exists." and "I'll buy this now because it'll raise my social status as opposed to dropping it which I always though was the case."
In the UK things get messed up because social status does weird topological reversals as you climb the ladder so the top and bottom tend to be closer together than the middle. For example pudding, napkin & jam are acceptable words in upper and lower social circles whereas sweet, serveitte & preserve would be used by the middle classes. I think this is a deliberate ploy by the upper and working classes to keep the middle classes in their place, it is impossible for them to raise their social status because it's not apparent which way is up.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2012 at 20:29
If I recall, trends for naming one's children come from the upper class. Lower class families then emulate them in an attempt to raise their status. The middle class on really tangentially factor into this. 
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2012 at 09:35
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2012 at 13:52
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

If I recall, trends for naming one's children come from the upper class. Lower class families then emulate them in an attempt to raise their status. The middle class on really tangentially factor into this. 
I've never heard of that. Interesting. Of course there is no transition between upper and lower class (both know their place) - middle classes are aspirational.
 
According to my dad (who like myself, was a Master Craftsman) the honorific "Master" given to the children of the upper classes (as in young master william) was taken from the Guild of Craftman honorific (as in Master Caprpenter) to give them equal status with the highest rank that a working man could achieve. This working-class honourific title is also where name of a Masters degree comes from (apprentice->journeyman->master craftsman) - it is also where 'masterpiece' comes from, as this was the final piece of demonstration work that a journeyman would produce before being accepted as a master.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2012 at 13:56
Interesting. Never made that connection. 
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 21 2012 at 20:13
Pfft David, turns out I wasn't even that avant being a big government liberal who realized limited government was the way to go...some British guy beat me by a few months :(
Founded that Blue Republican movement on FB and writes for Huff Post. I don't think it's mainstream or even major level but seems like he's been getting interviews/speaking opportunities/things published about it.

He's a  pretty cool guy as well.



Edited by JJLehto - August 21 2012 at 20:16
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Points: 1 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2012 at 08:59
Thought you guys might like this show
 
Libertarian presidential nominee and former Governor of New Mexico discusses his campaign and plans to end the Fed and taxes. http://www.stansberryradio.com/Porter-Stansberry/Latest-Episodes/Episode/91/Gary-Johnson-Unplugged#
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2012 at 13:24
For those of us interested in education, this TED talk talks about schools and how they suck.
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2012 at 14:19
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

For those of us interested in education, this TED talk talks about schools and how they suck.



That was some of the best 20 minutes I've ever spent. I'm glad I took a study break for that.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2012 at 14:34
You took a study break to actually learn something. Those are the best kind!
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2012 at 14:36
Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

You took a study break to actually learn something. Those are the best kind!

Well I needed to learn about something other than estate planning. 3-4 hours of that at a time can start to become taxing, as much as I enjoy it.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2012 at 14:38
Nice pun bro. 
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Points: 24598 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 23 2012 at 14:41
Thanks. I'm glad somebody caught it. *Insert brofist here*
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Points: 32550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2012 at 18:55
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/ron-paul-romney-don-t-fully-endorse-him-132604061.html
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2012 at 20:08
Tasmania may (might?) ban cigarettes to anyone born after 2000

I like how they talk about a smoke free generation. Can we stop pretending that prohibitions work? Even if you want to have this ban, at least talk about reducing smoking rather than eliminating it.
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2012 at 20:08
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/ron-paul-romney-don-t-fully-endorse-him-132604061.html


I like how he was given two conditions to make a speech. And he rejected both of them. Because he's a boss.
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